Length of Speaker Cables

[aramil2003]

I'm currently in the proccess of upgrading my speaker cables to Monster THX Certified onces. How important is it to maintain matching lengths? i.e. keep the left stereo feeding cable the same as the right feeding stereo one...

The reason being is that my equipments on the right-hand side of the room, 1m away from the right speaker. Whereas the left speaker is 6m away. Should I use the same lengths of cable?

Yes - I do exactly the same thing - same lengths. You will encounter a performance difference for each speaker if you used different lengths. Your left and right side should be balanced and this is determined by the distance the signals have to travel.

By the way, where are you getting your THX speaker cables from?

[aramil2003]

I got 2 reels- 30m each -for £44.95 each from hifibitz.co.uk. I've got a horrible feeling you're going to tell me that I could have got them elsewhere cheaper....... Am I right?

Also, will there be a significant difference if I use differing lengths? And, do the same principles apply to the surrounds as much?

Cheers

[oconnpad]

differnet lenghts are fine unless the diffence is in the tens of metre's which in the average size room is nearly imposible to do.

In the lengths you've specified there you will have NO problems at all.

The speed at which the signal travels down the wire is something like 300,000 metre's a sec so 5 metres in 300,000 is nothing, moving your head slightly will cause more of a difference.

Originally Posted by aramil2003

I got 2 reels- 30m each -for £44.95 each from hifibitz.co.uk. I've got a horrible feeling you're going to tell me that I could have got them elsewhere cheaper....... Am I right?

Also, will there be a significant difference if I use differing lengths? And, do the same principles apply to the surrounds as much?

Cheers

Same reels - £28.95 from EBay BUT now that I want them, they aren't available anymore!

[aramil2003]

Yeah, I got one from the same buy it now.... still £12.99 delivery though so it worked out at £41.94. Not much of a price difference really.

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by evilpetzoo

You will encounter a performance difference for each speaker if you used different lengths. Your left and right side should be balanced and this is determined by the distance the signals have to travel.

No offence EPZ but that is complete balderdash dude, I currently use a 7m run for my left speaker & a 3m run for my right speaker – there is no such problem for me (or many other audiophile with systems way in advcane of mine). There are a couple of points to highlight about your quote above you should go read up on :

Velocity of propogation – handy when working out how far/fast signals have to travel.
LRC – Load/Resistance/Capitance (ie how a cross section of copper, its dielectric covering and geometry/shape of conductor) can affect “signals”.
No 2 speakers have identical or matched output, ie a test (in Hifi+) I recall from another forum found that a pair of B+W 1NTs had them varying by as much as 10% from each other in response measurement, yet we worry about identical lengths of speaker cable. Some good threads here :

Should the speaker cables be of equal length?
Cable length
does speaker cable need to be the same lenght?

Now there is nothing wrong with matching the lengths of your speaker cable is it makes you “feel better” but in reality there is no reason to actually do it.

[aramil2003]

Thanks very much for all your help. I'll stick to my varying lengths because as pointed out, there will be no audible difference in my situation. I'll have enough spare now to use on my hifi (cheers).

Also, sorry for asking questions that I didn't realise have been answered in past threads. I'll do a search before I post next time.

[Londondecca]

Originally Posted by CJROSS

No offence EPZ but that is complete balderdash dude, I currently use a 7m run for my left speaker & a 3m run for my right speaker – there is no such problem for me (or many other audiophile with systems way in advcane of mine). There are a couple of points to highlight about your quote above you should go read up on :

Velocity of propogation – handy when working out how far/fast signals have to travel.
LRC – Load/Resistance/Capitance (ie how a cross section of copper, its dielectric covering and geometry/shape of conductor) can affect “signals”.
No 2 speakers have identical or matched output, ie a test (in Hifi+) I recall from another forum found that a pair of B+W 1NTs had them varying by as much as 10% from each other in response measurement, yet we worry about identical lengths of speaker cable. Some good threads here :

Should the speaker cables be of equal length?
Cable length
does speaker cable need to be the same lenght?

Now there is nothing wrong with matching the lengths of your speaker cable is it makes you “feel better” but in reality there is no reason to actually do it.

I do remember reading some research into the brains ability to perceive phase differences at certain frequencies at the nano second level. The paper was not HiFi related and regrettably I cannot remember the source.

Hawksford has alluded to the sensitive nature of the brain to phase shifts in speaker cable (Essex Echo) but again I do not think it was directly related to the length of the cable.

No matter what the theoretical models predict, I would say the practical difference is zero. Changing the speaker location by a few inches would give a far greater impact on the sound

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by Londondecca

No matter what the theoretical models predict, I would say the practical difference is zero. Changing the speaker location by a few inches would give a far greater impact on the sound

Hey London, consider how often your ears are both symmetrcially positioned in angle relation, and dimensionally to each speaker every time you listen to a set of speakers I cant see that many peoples ears being positioned perfectly to suit exact symmetry.

Phase you mention, I'll recall an insteresting aside about a hifi user on another forum of a glass spike bus shleter type nature, this chap is a well known figure around the hifi fora extolling various ideas which at best are contentious (he shall remain Naimless ) about what is "best", anyway to cut a long story short, he recieved a brand new set of Naim speakers IIRC, and went on a long journey of discovery about his hifi and what it could do, and what the racks could do (ie adding lots of phases & stages), he let lots of hifi fora friends hear his system and they too enjoyed the sound, anyway a long time passed before one such friend turned to him instantly and said after hearing the speakers for a couple of seconds :

"Your speakers sound out of phase"

The speakers he had been enjoying (and many other audiophiles too) had been wired out of phase at Naim.

Anyway Ive seen lots of opinion over the years, the daftest ones re. speaker lengths have actually been a couple of people saying the music from their speakers is "out of time/synch" you could not make it up.

Originally Posted by CJROSS

No offence EPZ but that is complete balderdash dude, I currently use a 7m run for my left speaker & a 3m run for my right speaker – there is no such problem for me (or many other audiophile with systems way in advcane of mine). There are a couple of points to highlight about your quote above you should go read up on :

Velocity of propogation – handy when working out how far/fast signals have to travel.
LRC – Load/Resistance/Capitance (ie how a cross section of copper, its dielectric covering and geometry/shape of conductor) can affect “signals”.
No 2 speakers have identical or matched output, ie a test (in Hifi+) I recall from another forum found that a pair of B+W 1NTs had them varying by as much as 10% from each other in response measurement, yet we worry about identical lengths of speaker cable. Some good threads here :

Should the speaker cables be of equal length?
Cable length
does speaker cable need to be the same lenght?

Now there is nothing wrong with matching the lengths of your speaker cable is it makes you “feel better” but in reality there is no reason to actually do it.

You learn something new everyday - The guy that did my install told me this - now I realise why - at £50+ per metre, and my room ESPECIALLY the surrounds requiring considerable lengths, he just got some extra cash out of me - DAMN HIM! Sorry for the misleading advice - I guess thats what these forums are for.

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by evilpetzoo

You learn something new everyday - The guy that did my install told me this - now I realise why - at £50+ per metre, and my room ESPECIALLY the surrounds requiring considerable lengths, he just got some extra cash out of me - DAMN HIM! Sorry for the misleading advice - I guess thats what these forums are for.

EvilPZ, well you are perfectly within your rights to phone him up and ask him why he told you this, asking him for the technical reasons behind his decision (then tell us ) . Also I have no idea what your rears are but even if they were Sonus Faber Stradiviri @ £20,000 a pair, £50/m is about £47/m too expensive IMHO. You have been “had” on a couple of fronts [excuse the pun].

Copper is copper and cross sectional area, geometry & dielectric coverings are not rockets science, 99% of the commercial cable industry portrays it as that, but luckily forums like this give a healthy balance to such horsecrud.

This is the main reason I put opinion on these boards, bloody rip-off dealers taking the urine – really get on my goat. There are AV installers on this board for example who take a more pragamatic & reasonable approach to cabling, I’ll not name them, but doing a search above on Van Damme Black Series Speaker Cable and make your own mind up.

Originally Posted by CJROSS

EvilPZ, well you are perfectly within your rights to phone him up and ask him why he told you this, asking him for the technical reasons behind his decision (then tell us ) . Also I have no idea what your rears are but even if they were Sonus Faber Stradiviri @ £20,000 a pair, £50/m is about £47/m too expensive IMHO. You have been “had” on a couple of fronts [excuse the pun].

Copper is copper and cross sectional area, geometry & dielectric coverings are not rockets science, 99% of the commercial cable industry portrays it as that, but luckily forums like this give a healthy balance to such horsecrud.

This is the main reason I put opinion on these boards, bloody rip-off dealers taking the urine – really get on my goat. There are AV installers on this board for example who take a more pragamatic & reasonable approach to cabling, I’ll not name them, but doing a search above on Van Damme Black Series Speaker Cable and make your own mind up.

It was 5 years and 2 houses ago. I've maintained the same principles since with regards to what he told me. No they were JAMO Surround Ones (I had the full original Jamo THX setup back then). Sorry that was AUD$50 pm (about £20+ pm) - I got this from the installer from the place in Melbourne I bought my JAMO system from (shonky B*stards!). Which leads me to my next question - what sort of questions do I ask now if I get an installer to come and assess my place here in the uk (as I will be stripping my lounge and starting from scratch with regards to installation. I reckon I could do it myself but I want wiring to be throug hthe skirting boards (which I could actually do myself). I need someone to help me fix my plasma to the wall and hide some wiring. I'm soundproofing the floor which will be overlaid with timber. I just don't want to get bad advice or ripped again. BTW: I now have SNELL THX fronts and JBL Professional series 8340s (THX) for the 7.1 and M&K700? sub. Have a Marantz 9300 ULTRA2 amp running it all. Am in the process of buying wiring but thinking of plugs in the wall for the speakers and wiring through the skirting board so it looks neater.

[Londondecca]

Originally Posted by CJROSS

Hey London, consider how often your ears are both symmetrcially positioned in angle relation, and dimensionally to each speaker every time you listen to a set of speakers I cant see that many peoples ears being positioned perfectly to suit exact symmetry.

Phase you mention, I'll recall an insteresting aside about a hifi user on another forum of a glass spike bus shleter type nature, this chap is a well known figure around the hifi fora extolling various ideas which at best are contentious (he shall remain Naimless ) about what is "best", anyway to cut a long story short, he recieved a brand new set of Naim speakers IIRC, and went on a long journey of discovery about his hifi and what it could do, and what the racks could do (ie adding lots of phases & stages), he let lots of hifi fora friends hear his system and they too enjoyed the sound, anyway a long time passed before one such friend turned to him instantly and said after hearing the speakers for a couple of seconds :

"Your speakers sound out of phase"

The speakers he had been enjoying (and many other audiophiles too) had been wired out of phase at Naim.

Anyway Ive seen lots of opinion over the years, the daftest ones re. speaker lengths have actually been a couple of people saying the music from their speakers is "out of time/synch" you could not make it up.

Sorry I probably did not make myself clear. Even if there were a difference caused by different lengths of cable, the effect would be minuscule. Changing say, speaker locations by a small amount would give a significantly higher influence on the sound quality compared to the impact of speaker cables.