Upgrading Speakers Cables

[Kamin99]

As I'm Moving house I'm looking into upgrading my speakers and Speakers cables currently I use definitive BP 6 and monster THX certified Cables
Looking to get at some point the likes of Sonus Faber grand Piano Domus

My Dilemma is which cable would give my system with a good clarity and good depth of field as well as being reasonably priced

[Kamin99]

I have done some research and may go for The Chord Odyssey Stereo Speaker Cable what do you think
http://www.chord.co.uk/chordweb/index2.htm

[Knightshade]

Hi Kamin,
It's not bad cable. Nor is Atlas Ikor or Apex/Ascent. But i'd take a look at some of the Van Damme cable that everyones talking about at the moment or even the Cat5 option. Certainly nothing wrong with it and when your talking about long runs of cable the cost can mount up. Run a search for CAT5 or Van damme cable. Could very well save you a few quid.

[Kamin99]

thanks for the advice
i also checked your post and pics of Cat5
i will read more on that

[dartagnain]

although expensive you should try some nordost speaker cables

[Knightshade]

Originally Posted by dartagnain

although expensive you should try some nordost speaker cables

Why?

[marcm09@hotmail]

dont do the cat 5 cables despite theie claims they are bright sounding and are no way a match for aftermarket cables, I have made them and they were way worse than my kimber 4pr and made the top end very 'harsh'. If budget isnt an issue then you will be pushed hard to beat the Wireworld cables, the polaris would be a good place to start and is there 4th from the top and simply stunning ! I also like audioquest slate, it is biwireable if you need it to be and would be another good option, but in a different league from the wireworld !

[Knightshade]

Plenty of other 'detailed' cable out there, Chord Signature, Nordost Valkyrja, Atlas Ikor.
Cat5 Is just the same only a fraction of the price. All of these will sound terrible on the wrong equipment. If your equipment tends towards the harsh top end then try something else but if you want a fuller more detailed sound then a variation of CAT5 is a good way to go. but hey if it doesn't suit all you've done is wasted a few pounds and some time. If it does work then you've saved a few hundred/thousand.

[CJROSS]

Kaiman copied from HFC re. speaker cables :

CSA Copper – Length of cable.

Its very easy to rig up large CSA of copper for pennies, ie T+E, CAT5 and very cheap bargain speaker cable, I had a chat last week with a studio cable dealer when ordering some XLR plugs, I asked him his views on speaker cable. And when I told him I was an audiophile making my own cables we got chatting about ICs & speaker cable, now for a guy selling cables you would expect the most flowery of prose etc etc, but he was having none of it, on speaker cable he said :

Go for some fat cross sectional copper if you have a tough load or run is over 10m, when asked what this entailed and for home use he said 2.5mm – 4.0mm squared CSA copper was fine. Here are the speaker cables he sells :

http://www.connectronics.uk.com/speakercable.htm

http://www.connectronics.uk.com/speakerflex250.htm

10m of 2 x 2.5mm2 @ £12.90 that is £1.29 a metre – compared to £1.99 for the Van Damme stuff I use, a very large saving.



http://www.connectronics.uk.com/speakerflex400.htm

The price for 2 x 4mm2 - £1.95 a metre, that is half the price of Van Damme from Maplins. Now if that does not put into context £10m cable from a hifi dealers (never mind the £450 you paid) then nothing will.

More interestingly check out the table for upping CSA of copper for run lengths, thus saving money, OK table is for studio applications but exact same theory in “audiophile” audio cabling :



Will copy this speaker info into the miser guide to hifi, anyone wanting cheap, estoric speaker cabling (that’s used in live event concerts & studio) ie the sound we all aim to achieve in audiophilia then they know where to look.

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by marcm09@hotmail

dont do the cat 5 cables despite theie claims they are bright sounding and are no way a match for aftermarket cables, I have made them and they were way worse than my kimber 4pr and made the top end very 'harsh'.

Sounds like you did not have the proper CSA (cross sectional area) of copper for your needs there old chap, just to point out they (ie us CAT5 advocates – quite a few BTW) did have the right CSA of copper required using CAT5 and it thus it worked prefectly well, as per our claims.

Good thread for you to read :

http://forum.hifichoice.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=20368

Kaiman, try CAT5 as KS suggests they are very cheap to do, many people like them (even in estoric systems) and if you don’t like them, start trying dealer cables. Before that though check out Van Dammes Blue or Black series, or the speaker cables I linked to earlier from Connectrics.com cheaper than the Van Damme and exactly the same configuration.

[marcm09@hotmail]

I have made several cat 5 cables and variations and was a believer that they were actually good. I have carried out extensive teating on these cables and have come to the conclusion that you cannot beat a proper cable from a highend company. I have also testing several higher end cables which are stunning and blow the cat 5 out of the water, my impression of the cat 5 is one of a harsh sound at the top end, bass def is muddy and it is quite poor at soundstaging.

To be honest excellent interconnects and speaker cable is the best money that you can spend on your system, why spend all that money on your lovely gear and ruin it by using cheap or homemade cables ?

A good cable does not add to the sound all it does is diminish the loss of siginals that are recieved. If you want a real good speaker cables which is priced very well have a look at this website - www.slinkylinks.net - it is a silver cable housed in a plastic tube and insulated by air for minimal loss, thses are simply stunning sounding, read the reviews section, they are in another league in performance but not in price, I can help arrange purchase if required.

[Knightshade]

Fair play marcm, perhaps I should say that Cat5 works very nicely with my present equipment and previous setups? I must say (Maybe it's my ears) but blind I can't tell speaker cable apart. Interconnects yes, but not speaker cable.
Something else worth noting, unless you have some very high quality speakers you won't have 'slinkylinks' cable in them or anything like it. You'll have el cheapo copper.

Originally Posted by marcm09@hotmail

To be honest excellent interconnects and speaker cable is the best money that you can spend on your system, why spend all that money on your lovely gear and ruin it by using cheap or homemade cables ?

For a start my soldering is considerably better than a lot of the so called 'best' interconnects out there. A poor solder joint on a cable and you might as well use bell wire.
I have to disagree with your statement 'excellent interconnects and speaker cable is the best money that you can spend on your system'
Source is the most important, then amps, then speakers. Cabling is for fine tuning. Room accoustics would come before cabling as well. If you don't like the sound of an amp, buy a different amp. Don't try and fix the problem with different cable, that way lies insanity.

[CJROSS]

Marc what stereo system have you used CAT5 in ?

I think mine is reasonably placed in the mid-high sector of hifi stereo equipment, the stereo systems that Knightshade has used CAT5 in are eye watering compared to mine, and to class “high end cable” as better is not something I would go along with, for example QED Genesis Biwire @ £60 a metre is high end but do a search on that cable on this forum to see its similarities to CAT5.

You don’t like CAT5 I have no prosb with that, but to suggest to someone who has never tried it to “disregard” users who have said in the positive aspect about its use, when it its cheap and worth an experiment - to go straight to “high end” speaker cables that cost much more. That to me does not compute Im afraid.

[CJROSS]

To be honest excellent interconnects and speaker cable is the best money that you can spend on your system, why spend all that money on your lovely gear and ruin it by using cheap or homemade cables ?

Well “cheap cable” to me that is perfectly up to spec, is well screened coxial cable usually 75ohm rated – this can be bought for 49p a metre upwards. Can be fitted with a variety of plugs, I also have extensive experience with DIY of cables, from many RCA ICs including pure silver ICs, CAT5, woven solid core mains speaker derivatives. IC wise the other evening I made up myself a brand new XLR-XLR 1m pair consisting of Neutrik metal bodied XLR plugs from :

http://www.connectronics.uk.com/XLR.htm




£11.70 for 4.

2m of Van Damme 3 core Microphone cable from Maplins @ £3



So for £15 I have a XLR cable that would cost me £100+ from a “cable manufacturer”, speaker cable wise I would use this “cheap” cable from the same outfit :

http://www.connectronics.uk.com/speakercable.htm

Ie concert or studio grade speaker cable sold to studios & concert promoters, ie the sound we audiophiles strive to emulate. From £1.29 - £4 a metre.

Not what you would use I grant you, but you are very wrong to suggest (especially to new users) that they would ruin their systems with these cables. Its quite simple you have probably made your mind up with sighted pre-bias in what you are listening to and this shapes your perceptionmore than you care to admit. Blind listening tests for me transformed cabling & the hype surrounding it, maybe give it a try.

[Knightshade]

Originally Posted by marcm09@hotmail

I have made several cat 5 cables and variations and was a believer that they were actually good. I have carried out extensive teating on these cables and have come to the conclusion that you cannot beat a proper cable from a highend company. I have also testing several higher end cables which are stunning and blow the cat 5 out of the water, my impression of the cat 5 is one of a harsh sound at the top end, bass def is muddy and it is quite poor at soundstaging.

Would you say that 3cable cat5 and 6 cable cat5 variations have the same properties? Just curious to hear what you think.