The Sales Of Goods Act

[soni]

Please find the following Sales Of Goods Act.

[The-Stranger]

nice one

:)

[mcfarfs]

Yeh, its good stuff to know this, cheers.

[Peridot]

I don't get the point of posting poor quality scanned pages as opposed to a link to the original documents :confused:

[mcfarfs]

Perhaps he doesn't have the original documents? Plus he has highlighted the key points as well.

[Peridot]

Original is here (http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm)

Although better to start here (http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm) with details on other relevant legislation.

If we're going to have a sticky, I would have thought links to the best of the various sites giving this sort of advice, together with whatever information is available on similar legislation in countries that we may buy mail-order from, would be most appropriate :).

[soni]

I don't get the point of posting poor quality scanned pages as opposed to a link to the original documents :confused:

If you don't like the quality of the scanned pages, then don't use them - Simple!!!

If you cared to look at the bottom of the page, you would have seen the original site address - or is it to much effort to type it in :cool:

If you thought about it a little bit deeper like Mcfarfs did - you would have probably came to the same conclusion - i've highlighted the key points that helped me get a cash refund after 4 months. This was originally explained at the top of this thread - however it was removed by the moderator who created the sticky.

[soni]

Original is here (http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm)

Although better to start here (http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm)with details on other relevant legislation.

If we're going to have a sticky, I would have thought links to the best of the various sites giving this sort of advice, together with whatever information is available on similar legislation in countries that we may buy mail-order from, would be most appropriate :).

:lesson: It might be worth checking those two links you've posted above - as they are both the same? :confused:

I posted the above .pdf files whilst at work in an attempt to help members who are in a similar situation as i was to obtain refunds/exchanges.

If you or anybody else have any suggestions or have stumbled accross helpful links then feel free to post them here. No need for sarcasm - I have a career and time is limited, i therefore visit these forums for leisure purposes during my spare time.

I will reiterate - if anybody has any ideas or useful links - there's no need for sarcasm - just post them up. Oh, and if you are going to post more than one link, make sure there not the same address lol..... :grin:

[Razor]

Cheers for the links soni, dont worry if some people dont appreciate your time and effort. I do and I know others will as well.

Keep up the good work :)

[Peridot]

soni,

I didn't mean to appear sarcastic, nor was I questioning your motivation in posting the information, so please accept my apologies for appearing that way. :blush:

What I was questioning was the logic of making this information, in this format, a sticky in general chat. I've now found your original thread and understand the context, and also see that you were specifically asked to do this. I consider the original thread in its entirety much more useful than the highlighted pages with the context removed.

I agree that that general consumer rights information is worth collating in one place, and would be happy to contribute if we can agree the best format for it to take.

Oh, and I've corrected the link in my earlier post :)

[soni]

soni,

I didn't mean to appear sarcastic, nor was I questioning your motivation in posting the information, so please accept my apologies for appearing that way. :blush:

What I was questioning was the logic of making this information, in this format, a sticky in general chat. I've now found your original thread and understand the context, and also see that you were specifically asked to do this. I consider the original thread in its entirety much more useful than the highlighted pages with the context removed.

I agree that that general consumer rights information is worth collating in one place, and would be happy to contribute if we can agree the best format for it to take.

Oh, and I've corrected the link in my earlier post :)

Peridot - theres no need for an apology :nono: , however it is decent of you to offer. :)

Please feel free to post any additional information/links that may help :smashin: .

Many Thanks

Soni :thumbsup:

[vauny]

Great info, cheers.

[mcfarfs]

A friend of mine bough a pair of football boots from Sport & Soccer, and two days later tried to return them because they didn't fit.

They were unused, in the original packaging, and with a receipt.

Sports & Soccer wouldn't give him a refund! :eek:

They would only give gift vouchers :lesson: :nono: .

That's hardly the way to get loyal customers, is it :suicide: .

[soni]

A friend of mine bough a pair of football boots from Sport & Soccer, and two days later tried to return them because they didn't fit.

They were unused, in the original packaging, and with a receipt.

Sports & Soccer wouldn't give him a refund! :eek:

They would only give gift vouchers :lesson: :nono: .

That's hardly the way to get loyal customers, is it :suicide: .

Funny you should post the above - i bought a pair of work boots (not the industrial type but 'suit boots' from Clarks in Bluewater at the end of February.

When i purchased them i was told that they were one of the hardest wearing boot they sold (some new special heavy duty and comfort design Clarks had just came up with - can't remember the name they've given it), anyway they cost me £70.00. I thought it would be money worth spent as most shoes/boots only last me a couple of months. Anyway, to get to the point :suicide: last week i went to put my boots on and noticed a hole had appeared straight though the bottom, and on closer inspection i noticed the soft leather side had started coming adrift from the sole. Luckily, i had stored the box along with the reciept under the bed, so i went and had a look to see when i had bought them, and when i saw it was only the end of February, off i went over to Bluewater, asked this Female if i could speak with the Store Manager, and she told me the Store Manager was at lunch but she was the Deputy, and she could make the same decisions as the Manager. Anyway, i explained the problem, told her that i don't expect to spend £70.00 on a pair of boots that only last 6 months, i said it would be different if they cost £30.00. She asked if i wanted another pair!!! I originally said yes, but when she went to get another pair she said they haven't got anynore in stock, as its the summer, and the're mostly selling shoes (never heard that one before but never mind). Anyway, i got a new pair of shoes out of it, this time a cheaper pair at £40.00, and ended up getting £30.00 cash back!! :) :smashin:

[mcfarfs]

See, THAT'S customer service!

[phcahill]

Thanks so much and fingers crossed for me.

Paul

[PoochJD]

HI,

A friend of mine bough a pair of football boots from Sport & Soccer, and two days later tried to return them because they didn't fit. They were unused, in the original packaging, and with a receipt. Sports & Soccer wouldn't give him a refund! :eek: They would only give gift vouchers :lesson: :nono: . That's hardly the way to get loyal customers, is it :suicide: .

Any shop within the UK, that refuses to refund (via the original method of payment) for an item that has been unused, and is "not fit for its intended purpose", and has been returned to the store it was purchased from within 7 days, is breaking the law! There's no exceptions to that within the Sale Of Goods Act, except for certain specialist items, e.g. made-to-measure clothing, food and other such perishables, et al.

Any store that says otherwise, or displays a notice, is also breaking the law! Quote the Sale Of Goods Act at them, for either of these two issues, and if need be, explain that you can and will take legal action against them, if they do not refund you your money, under these legally-defined conditions! :lesson:


Pooch

[GaryB]

HI,

Any shop within the UK, that refuses to refund (via the original method of payment) for an item that has been unused, and is "not fit for its intended purpose", and has been returned to the store it was purchased from within 7 days, is breaking the law! There's no exceptions to that within the Sale Of Goods Act, except for certain specialist items, e.g. made-to-measure clothing, food and other such perishables, et al.

There are other exceptions. From the Trading Standards website at:

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0043-1011.txt

When are you not entitled to anything?

* If you were told of any faults before you bought the goods.
* If the fault was obvious and it would have been reasonable to have noticed it on examination before buying.
* If you caused any damage yourself.
* If you made a mistake, e.g. you don't like the colour, it is the wrong size etc.
* If you have changed your mind about the goods, or seen them cheaper elsewhere.

[Searcher73]

Hi all I have read the above with interest and was wondering if someone can clear a few things up for me.

I purchased a Toshiba 32WL56 LCD TV from Play.com on the 1st July 2005 for £950 and the Tv appears to have an intermittent fault were it switches itself off then back on, this is happening around once a week/fortnight.

I reported this to Toshiba who sent a technician from an independent company out to look at the TV however he went away stating that he will have to speak to Toshiba about the fault but it is probably looking likely that they will take the TV away to attempt a repair. However they advised me its not their policy to supply a replacement whilst mine is away, now as the fault is intermittent my TV could be away for several weeks so this prompted me to contact Play.com.

At first I was told that they would be happy to exchange the set for a new one, but when I advised them I don’t have original packaging I was advised they would have to seek further advice about this.

The next day I received a call back and they are now stating that as the goods where bought more than 28 days ago that they won’t exchange my faulty TV, and they suggested that I allow Toshiba to take my TV away for repair?

I would be happy for this to happen if they gave me a temporary TV but they won’t so I have advised Play.com that I would be seeking further legal advice on the matter and suggested they put this in writing that they wont exchange the faulty TV because I have had it for more than 28 days, and don’t have the original box etc.

Now I am a wee bit confused as some of the info from the above links states it’s the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if the goods do not conform to contract etc.

&
If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances) etc
Has anyone been through a similar dispute to mine? if so could you guide me through what my actual rights are and what my next steps should be.

Thanx

[soni]

:hiya: Searcher 73.

Firstly, i returned my Tosh 46WM48p back to Comet, after over 4 months, without any packaging. At the end of the day depending on the size of the TV, the packaging can prove extremely difficult to store.

Secondly, read Para 7 of the first page of the Sales Of Goods Act, it clearly states that 'if a consumer' YOU can demand a repair or a replacement.

The Act is a little 'loose' as is many legal documents, and its normally up to the court to decide on the outome of things like this, however my advice would be to firstly print a copy of the Act, find out the name of the Director of the company you've purchased from (at the end of the day he's the guy who's going to be hit in the pocket if he doesn't sought things out/not the telephone operator), then fax/post a copy of the act along with a covering letter stating that its your right to demand a refund as the TV was only purchased in July and it didn't conform to contract at the time of sale as it was faulty (i don't know if it did or didn't but neither will they!) and if you don't receive a satisfactory outcome to the matter within 28 days then you will commence small claim court proceedings which could end up in you receiving damages as well as a replacement :eek: (as elsewhere in the act it states this, if you haven't received any benefit from the goods - which you clearly haven't as you can't watch a film without it switching off ;) :) )

I'm sure you'll end up getting a replacement set, i certainly wouldn't settle for a repair, i would fight it all the way - but then again thats just how pedantic i really am :grin: :smashin: :thumbsup:

[Searcher73]

Hi Soni,

Thanks for responding very much appreciated mate, will definitely be following your advice and post updates etc..

Just had another problem sprung upon me over the weekend, my 10 month old Dell Pc has just died on me so I am currently trying to speak to Dell regarding repairs etc which is proving rather difficult as they are based in India or somewhere?

Mental, everything is breaking :(

[Searcher73]

:hiya: Good news received tonight Play.com have agreed to replace my faulty Toshiba 32wl56 LCD Television on the basis that I complained that the repair Toshiba were offering was to be done by a 3rd party company and not by Toshiba themselves, they stuck by their term & conditions that because I didn't report the fault within 30 days to them in writing that I have to accept a repair so luckily in my letter I also advised them I thought it was totally unacceptable that they expected me to have 3 month old TV repaired by an outsourced 3rd party company.

Only downside is the TV is out of stock - dam.

Anyway result lads, thanks all for the advice :clap:
:

[lmccauley]

Another question.

If you report a fault to a retailer, and the retailer asks you to contact a 3rd party to repair the item, and the 3rd party charge a callout fee, is the original retailer required to pay the callout fee as part of the repair you are entitled to?

I can't find anything specific in the Sale of Goods Act, and I've never had to do this kind of thing before.

Cheers,
Liam

[GaryB]

Another question.

If you report a fault to a retailer, and the retailer asks you to contact a 3rd party to repair the item, and the 3rd party charge a callout fee, is the original retailer required to pay the callout fee as part of the repair you are entitled to?

I can't find anything specific in the Sale of Goods Act, and I've never had to do this kind of thing before.

Cheers,
Liam

If it's under the standard manufacturers guarantee, these are usually back to base only, so they won't cover any callout fee or carriage.

[lmccauley]

If it's under the standard manufacturers guarantee, these are usually back to base only, so they won't cover any callout fee or carriage.
It's not under the guarantee, it's under the Sale of Goods Act. Specifically, this bit (bold highlights are mine):

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

So, does the "cost of a repair" include callout charges that the repairer makes under the SOGA?

Cheers,
Liam

[General Skanky]

There is also the new-ish law that the seller has to prove a item wasn't faulty in the first 6 months, and not the consumer show it was.

Correct?

Can't remember the full extent of it.

[GaryB]

There is also the new-ish law that the seller has to prove a item wasn't faulty in the first 6 months, and not the consumer show it was.

Correct?

Can't remember the full extent of it.

It's not new. It's in the conditions shown by the links posted above:

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm

Point 10.

[iendicott]

Soni and quick scenario then.

I buy an LCD screen, take it home and plug it in a notice that there is a dead pixel. Now LCD manafacturers have a policy that states the screen must have so many before dead pixels before the screen is replaced but you could argue that the screen is faulty from the start under the SOGA, so would you get a replacement screen ?

[Lyris]

I have another question.

I bought a Sony KLV-26HG2 in September 2004. It developed a fault in January 2005 (just outside of the 1 year warranty period). It is currently being looked over by a repair shop.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/343/salesofgoods2kp.jpg

I live in Scotland. Does this mean that I can get Sony to pay the repair fees? If so, how would I go about doing this?

(In addition to this, Sony advertised the screen as "High Definition Ready" deespite the fact that the European model I have lacks the necessary input. I have proof of Sony's web site containing the "High Def Ready" claim. Would this help swing things in my favour?)

[lmccauley]

I have another question.

I bought a Sony KLV-26HG2 in September 2004. It developed a fault in January 2005 (just outside of the 1 year warranty period). It is currently being looked over by a repair shop.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/343/salesofgoods2kp.jpg

I live in Scotland. Does this mean that I can get Sony to pay the repair fees? If so, how would I go about doing this?

(In addition to this, Sony advertised the screen as "High Definition Ready" deespite the fact that the European model I have lacks the necessary input. I have proof of Sony's web site containing the "High Def Ready" claim. Would this help swing things in my favour?)
The retailer should pay the repair bill.

I had a problem with my 2.5 year old plasma and contacted the retailer. They arranged to transport the panel to an approved repair centre, sorted out the payment for the repair, and transported it back to my house.

It's good when you find that a retailer's after-sales service is just as good as their pre-sales service. :smashin:

Cheers,
Liam

[Lyris]

Well, advice please anyone?

I just called Electrosaver and they said no, they would not pay for repairs as it was out of warranty. After quoting some legislation to them they said that if in the (unlikely) event that the TV was not repairable then I should call them back and they might do something.

Has anyone got any advice of what I should do? I'm not sure who's right here.

[GaryB]

Well, advice please anyone?

I just called Electrosaver and they said no, they would not pay for repairs as it was out of warranty. After quoting some legislation to them they said that if in the (unlikely) event that the TV was not repairable then I should call them back and they might do something.

Has anyone got any advice of what I should do? I'm not sure who's right here.

Have you contacted Sony yet? If it is only a few months outside guarantee most of the reputable manufacturers will do something to help.

[lmccauley]

Well, advice please anyone?

I just called Electrosaver and they said no, they would not pay for repairs as it was out of warranty. After quoting some legislation to them they said that if in the (unlikely) event that the TV was not repairable then I should call them back and they might do something.

Has anyone got any advice of what I should do? I'm not sure who's right here.
According to the Sale of Goods Act, it's up to the retailer to repair it. My plasma was 18 months out of warranty, but the retailer paid for the repairs without a quibble.

From the DTI (http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm) linked earlier in the thread):
• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.



Q10. What can I do to claim damages or if the retailer will not honour my rights?

A: The Small Claims Court procedure provides the means to bring a claim, for up to £5000 (in England and Wales), at modest cost and without the need for a solicitor. Your local Citizens Advice Bureau can advise on how to make a claim.

Cheers,
Liam

[Lyris]

Thanks Liam, I'll write a letter to them instead.

And yeah, I've contacted Sony who agreed to pay for 50% of the repairs fee up to a cost of something like 250 pounds, PROVIDED I had it repaired an authorised Sony place. The nearest one wanted 50 pounds just to look at it. So I'll try again with Electrosaver and see what they can do for me once I've quoted some legislation.

Thanks everyone, will keep you posted.

[Lyris]

If anyone else is going through this the same way I am, give the Consumer Direct number (08454 04 05 06) a ring. They are extremely helpful and reomind you exactly what your rights are in situations like this.

They basically told me to write a letter with the heading "Sale of Goods Act (1979) As Amended" reminding the retailer of their responsibilities, and giving them 14 days to repair or replace the TV. These laws seem incredibly good for customers in the UK, I was never even aware of these existing.

Legislation like this is almost certainly going to put me off importing any electronics in the future (maybe that was the idea?)

[lmccauley]

Legislation like this is almost certainly going to put me off importing any electronics in the future (maybe that was the idea?)
Just noticed you are in Scotland. If you are buying electronics in the future, and want to buy from a local company that is quite happy to fulfill its obligations under the Sale of Goods Act, then can I recommend The Media Factory (http://www.tmfsolutions.co.uk/). Joe posts a lot of helpful advice in the plasma forum, which is why I bought from him in the first place.

Cheers,
Liam

[GaryB]

Reported as spam.

(Offending post now removed).

[hornydragon]

not sure if this has been posted (be good to link this thread to the FAQs in other forums) but back on topic there are some new websites for heping out consumers unfortunate to fall into a poor product poor retailer trap.

www.adviceguide.org.uk

and

www.euroconsumer.org.uk

Especially good for dealing with none UK based reatilers like Pixmania etc

[kevin h]

Alot of people have seen the light over the past few years regarding the sales of goods act.

Unfortunately, retailers seem to be dragging there feet over it, and while it is very good legislation at the moment, it can be very frustrating that some managers of stores still refuse to allow the act to run as it should.

What alot of people still haven't grasped hold of, is that if when you approach a store with a complaint, if it is within the 28days, it is actually a criminal offence to refuse to give a refund, and is therefor an arrestable offence.

As for after that period, it is a matter of who is prepared to argue the most, and as such, you will find that most people when having a complaint, will in fact give up. I for one do not follow that approach, even if it was aqn item only costing £10, i feel it is my right as a consumer not to be fobbed off by the people that sell such sh*tty crap that it breaks.

My only confusion within "our" rights at the moment is what is actually defined as warranty and what isn't. I always believed that in england (not sure about anywhere else), that the retailer was responsible for the first 6 months, and then the warranty passed over to the manufacturer. If this is so then ultimately by agreeing to the warranty they are in fact agreeing to be a party to any claim resulting under the sales of goods act.

My last comment is actually about the lenght of warranty, since the 1st jan 05, i thought under european law, electical goods are SUPPOSED to have a 2 year warranty, but paperwork coming with new electrical lists only 1 year in the UK but 2 years everywhere else in europe.... Has anyone any ideas on this...???

[Lyris]

Luckily it looks like my LCD TV is going well all thanks to the great people at my local trading standards.

The retailer "wasn't aware" of their responsibilities, so they have been informed and things are underway :clap:

My last comment is actually about the lenght of warranty, since the 1st jan 05, i thought under european law, electical goods are SUPPOSED to have a 2 year warranty, but paperwork coming with new electrical lists only 1 year in the UK but 2 years everywhere else in europe.... Has anyone any ideas on this...???
I noticed this. All the Continental stores are listing 2 years for a new Sony BRAVIA LCD but it's just 1 here :(

[Greg Lisowski]

These large companies tend to forget its the customer who rules not them.
If they ignore there customers in any way at all its at there peril.The word soon gets out about poor service(via many AV forums)and people will think twice about buying their products.Yes the Customer is King and should always be regarded as such.
All the best Greg..

[Lyris]

News on my defective LCD TV re the Sale of Goods Act.

Via Trading Standards, the store (electrosaver.co.uk) told me to take the TV to an authorised Sony repair centre (this cost me 60 pounds) to have it checked over, after that they would see about repairs.

Now I've paid the 60 pounds to get the report made, they say they're not going to do anything. Well, thanks guys but you could have told me that BEFORE you told me to get the report made :rolleyes: :thumbsdow

Now I'm waiting for info back from the credit card company, trying to get money back from them (joint liability).

If not, small claims court. Anyone got any advice on that matter?

[Lyris]

OK, so now the credit card company has denied my request for them to take joint liability.

In addition, the authorised Sony Repair Centre has damaged the LCD TV further by cracking the top of the case (and not even managing to reassemble it properly). "We'll get the manager to call you back" - my a**e you will, I'm still waiting...

So now I have a broken LCD TV that's now got additional cosmetic damage, 60 pounds down for almost nothing, and an LCD TV I can't resell.

Has anyone here ever gone to a small claims court before? Because that's now the last option.

[ash]

Can anyone help me, I'm in a real muddle. Here is my story.

My LCD which I bough in Oct 2005, Toshiba WLT58 is having trouble. If I put the speaker sound to around 35 (maximum 100) there is some buzzing which can be heard, though from far its inaudible, but from close it is. So Toshiba sent an engineer round, he had it looked at, but the guy was really old and no offence but his hearing wasn't the best, my family could hear the crackling from the speakers while he couldn't from 1 metre, he only heard it with his ear near the TV. So he said he will go back to base and compare it with another 42WLT58 to see if this is a common problem, after two days I get a phone call saying that it is meant to be like that. I said that was unfair etc. but they then said it was in the "full specification" that the TV did this, I was going to get angry and ask if it said that it did that in the manual, but passed on it. They then said phone your retailer for a refund/exchange etc. but I then said they would need a refund code from Toshiba, they said Toshiba won't help me! :mad: So I hang up....

So what do I do? I can't see my retailer refunding me with them taking a loss? :god:

Reading the Act from the website.
The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) says that goods should be as follows:

* Of satisfactory quality. - speakers crackling isnt really

This means the goods must meet the standards that any reasonable person would expect, taking into account the description, the price and all other relevant information. In some circumstances, the retailer may be liable for any statement made by the manufacturer about the goods.

Satisfactory quality includes the appearance and finish of the goods, their safety and durability and whether they are free from defects (including minor faults)

* Fit for the purpose - not really as I can't listen properly

that goods of this type are generally sold. They must also be fit for any specific or particular purpose made known to the seller at the time of the agreement.

When are you not entitled to anything?

* If you were told of any faults before you bought the goods. - I wasn't told of the probelm
* If the fault was obvious and it would have been reasonable to have noticed it on examination before buying. - it wasn't obvious


The thing is when there is sound coming from the TV, it can not be heard but when its silent it can.

So what do I do if my retailer doesn't help me. Do I push my consumer rights to Toshiba or the retailer.

EDIT: I bought via credit card if that helps.

[ash]

Suscribing to thread :)

[ash]

Well that is sorted.

Toshiba gave a refund code, and then customer services said I can use that as credit, they said no refund. Is this right, or am I allowed to force a refund?

[ash]

I'll explain my situation again. I want to know where I stand.

My TV has crackling speakers, Toshiba can't fix it, so they gave a refund code to my retailer. My retailer says I can't have a refund, my TV cost around 2k so they said you can spend upto that on anything on the shop.

I've been reading this on the Consumer Direct site:

Electrical goods - your rights

If you have bought electrical goods - such as toasters, washing machines, microwaves, stereos and televisions - they must be:

* Of satisfactory quality.
* Fit for their purpose.
* As described.

When an item doesn’t meet some or all of these conditions:

If you have only used them a few times or haven’t had a reasonable opportunity to check them, you are probably entitled to a refund for a fault or poor description, or alternatively you may request a replacement.

If the fault is only minor and can easily be put right, it is reasonable to accept a repair. This won’t stop you claiming a replacement or refund if the repair turns out to be unsatisfactory.

If you have used them more than a few times or have had a reasonable opportunity to check them, you are probably still entitled to a repair or replacement. A repair should be carried out within a reasonable period of time and without causing you significant inconvenience. Any repair should restore goods to a satisfactory condition. If this does not happen, you are entitled to a replacement or compensation. This could be a sum of money or the cost of hiring a temporary replacement, or perhaps the loan of a replacement.

If the goods cannot be replaced or repaired economically, you are entitled to a refund. The trader may make a reduction from the price you paid to allow for the use you have had from the goods.


But slightly confused by this from the Trading Standards site, I've highlighted the bits
What are you entitled to ask for?

If the goods are faulty at the time of sale, you are legally entitled to request one of the following remedies:

1) A full refund.

This remedy is available when the goods have not been 'accepted'. Under the Sale of Goods Act, acceptance can take place in three ways:

* By telling the retailer that you have accepted them.
* By acting in a way with the goods which is inconsistent with the seller's ownership. E.g. if you have altered the goods in any way or customised them then you would be deemed to have accepted them.
* By keeping them for longer than a reasonable time without telling the seller that you have rejected them. There is no time specified in the Act and it may vary according to the type of goods. Ultimately, it may be for the judge to decide whether an unreasonable time has passed and whether goods have been accepted. For this reason you must contact the supplier, preferably in writing, as soon as the fault appears. To delay may mean you lose a right to a refund

If acceptance has taken place, then only the following remedies are available:

2) Compensation (damages)

The amount of compensation may be based on the cost of repair, or if that is not possible, compensation may be based on the purchase price with an allowance for usage.

3) Repair or replacement

The trader can refuse to agree to either of these remedies if it is disproportionate in comparison to the other remedies. For example, if you ask a trader to replace a washing machine then he would be entitled to turn down your request and offer a repair instead.

However, the repair or replacement must be carried out within a reasonable time and without causing significant inconvenience to the consumer. If this does not happen or the repair or replacement is not possible, then the consumer can rescind the contract (claim a refund) or request a reduction in purchase price.

Please note: The remedies of repair/replacement and the subsequent rescission or reduction in purchase price are not applicable to Hire Purchase contracts and other laws apply. Please contact your local Trading Standards Service for further advice

[Iceman_]

Hi guys, Can anyone help with this situation:

Bought a wide screen Philips 32PW9617 from Empire Direct about Feb 2003 It was sold with 1 one year guarantee and no extended warranty.

The TV had been fine until one morning it would not boot up when switched on and the TV red indicator continually flashed.

I have been speaking to some of my colleagues at work and that suggested due to the relatively young age of the TV I could claim that the TV was not ‘fit for purpose’ or unsatisfactory quality from the original seller as it is expected that a TV should last 5 years. If this is so, how do I go about doing this? I am expecting to get fobbed off left right and centre, and they will find any excuse not to pay up.

From reading threads on the forum it would appear that is a known fault with this TV, as a number of fellow forum members had experienced similar problems)
Due to the delay I am very serious in buying from another retailer, but I can foresee that Empire Direct may only give me a partial refund if I buy a new TV from them. I can see this dragging on for weeks, if ever it gets resolved.

Can anyone help or has gone through a similar problem to a satisfactory conclusion ?

Thanks

[ash]

Phone EmpireDirect and ask to speak to a manager or higher member of staff. Then quote the Sales of Good Act and what has happened so far.

3) Repair or replacement

The trader can refuse to agree to either of these remedies if it is disproportionate in comparison to the other remedies. For example, if you ask a trader to replace a washing machine then he would be entitled to turn down your request and offer a repair instead.

However, the repair or replacement must be carried out within a reasonable time and without causing significant inconvenience to the consumer. If this does not happen or the repair or replacement is not possible, then the consumer can rescind the contract (claim a refund) or request a reduction in purchase price.

Please note: The remedies of repair/replacement and the subsequent rescission or reduction in purchase price are not applicable to Hire Purchase contracts and other laws apply. Please contact your local Trading Standards Service for further advice
Empire Direct should pay for th full repair, if not give you a replacement. Good luck! And it should last 6 years a piece of technology of that stature, but 5 years in Scotland.

[Iceman_]

Thanks ash

Phoned EmpireDirect today, not very happy with their response insisting that I have to arrange a qualified Philips engineer to try and repair the TV then try and claim back the costs incurred only if the engineer finds a fault with the TV orginated when the TV was sold.

I have now sent an e-mail to the Service manger stating that this not acceptable and they should arrange a Philips approved engineer to inspect the TV at their cost. Also stating that I wish to make a claim that the goods purchased were of unsatisfactory quality, as I believe they are liable under Sale of Goods Act 1979 Also stated that on this forum there a high proportion of dissatisfied customers who also purchased this TV and have had similar problems within a relatively short period of purchasing the TV.

Have to wait now for a responce:mad:

[ash]

Don't worry :)
Someone can help you in this part of the law, about the problem to must have been there at purchase, I'm a bit hazy on that.

[neilmcl]

Thanks ash

Phoned EmpireDirect today, not very happy with their response insisting that I have to arrange a qualified Philips engineer to try and repair the TV then try and claim back the costs incurred only if the engineer finds a fault with the TV orginated when the TV was sold.

I have now sent an e-mail to the Service manger stating that this not acceptable and they should arrange a Philips approved engineer to inspect the TV at their cost. Also stating that I wish to make a claim that the goods purchased were of unsatisfactory quality, as I believe they are liable under Sale of Goods Act 1979 Also stated that on this forum there a high proportion of dissatisfied customers who also purchased this TV and have had similar problems within a relatively short period of purchasing the TV.

Have to wait now for a responce:mad:As the TV is over 6 months old it is your responsiblity, not ED, to prove that the fault is a result of poor manufacture. Rather than getting it fully repaired and then claimg the costs back, get an engineers report from the repairer first and then arrange with ED for them to get it repaired at their cost. Your problem sounds like the invertor has gone.

[Iceman_]

Your problem sounds like the invertor has gone.

Any suggestions on the cost of a invertor?

[neilmcl]

Any suggestions on the cost of a invertor?No idea but the service engineer will be able to cost all this up for you in writing so you can then pass it on to ED but you will have to bear the initial call-out cost which is likely to be around the £60 mark.

I'm not saying its defintely the inverter, although thats what it sounds like, it could even be the main psb which will be more costly but the point is to get it looked at, get an engineers report and then get ED to sort it out.

[GaryB]

Isn't that a CRT set? If so, they don't normally have an inverter.

[neilmcl]

Isn't that a CRT set? If so, they don't normally have an inverter.:oops: You're absolutely correct, for some reason I assumed it was an LCD, I've spent too much time on the LCD forum I'm afraid. :)

Anyway the rest of the advice still applies.

[mhsslinky]

The trouble with this type of situation is the hassle you have to go through to get anything sorted. To be honest if it were me i'd just pay to get it repaired, it will cost you more in terms of premium rate phone calls to empire to try and get it sorted for free than it will to get it fixed.

I'm in retail and i've gotta be on honest i think the sale of goods act confuses more people than it helps. There is just too much that is vague, like the continuous use of the word 'probably' and the phrase 'a reasonable amount of time'.

At the end of the day how much is all the time and aggro you will have trying to get it resolved for free worth?

[sy278]

Hi Guys,

I need some advice, here is the situation:

My cousin bought a new laptop from Comet on the 15th September and collected it on the 16th.

Now following this he has found that the battery isn't holding its charge, after being unplugged from the mains after a full recharge cycle it dies within 20 minutes.

He returned the machine to comet yesterday for an exchange, they said no it had to be sent to Acer for examination, so he said well just forget it give me my money back, they again said no.

So he left it with them, I gave him a copy of the sale of goods act attached to this thread, as the machine is clearly not fit for the purpose it was sold for, he is entitled to a full refund or replacement.

Upon quoting this Comet replied "Thats not our policy" my cousin then said well your policy doesnt really matter as the law quite clearly states this is my statutory right, they said "too bad".

I advised him to then contact his local trading standards office and they put him through to consumer direct, who have said that he is wrong and comet is right!

Surely this isn't correct, is it?


Please any help will be great!

[WibXL]

Hi Guys,

I need some advice, here is the situation:

My cousin bought a new laptop from Comet on the 15th September and collected it on the 16th.

Now following this he has found that the battery isn't holding its charge, after being unplugged from the mains after a full recharge cycle it dies within 20 minutes.

He returned the machine to comet yesterday for an exchange, they said no it had to be sent to Acer for examination, so he said well just forget it give me my money back, they again said no.

So he left it with them, I gave him a copy of the sale of goods act attached to this thread, as the machine is clearly not fit for the purpose it was sold for, he is entitled to a full refund or replacement.

Upon quoting this Comet replied "Thats not our policy" my cousin then said well your policy doesnt really matter as the law quite clearly states this is my statutory right, they said "too bad".

I advised him to then contact his local trading standards office and they put him through to consumer direct, who have said that he is wrong and comet is right!

Surely this isn't correct, is it?


Please any help will be great!


From my understanding if it's less than thirty days old he should be entitled to a refund if he wants it, after that it depends on the store. I'd try phoning consumer direct again to see if you get a different person with a different answer.

[sy278]

From my understanding if it's less than thirty days old he should be entitled to a refund if he wants it, after that it depends on the store. I'd try phoning consumer direct again to see if you get a different person with a different answer.

cheers, thats what i thought.

[ricflairandy]

Guys,

I baught a plasma frmo empire direct about 7 weeks ago. Its brilliant, perfect, fantastic but i have 1 small niggle with it. I can hear a buzzing sound coming from it when im sat infront if it. Slightly to the side and its gone, but sat infront and you cn hear it. Its quiet , but still very annoying.

Anyone know what chances i have of getting a replacement? And if so , what the turnaround is like? I dont want to have to wait days and days for a replacement, kids would go crazy.

[GaryB]

Guys,

I baught a plasma frmo empire direct about 7 weeks ago. Its brilliant, perfect, fantastic but i have 1 small niggle with it. I can hear a buzzing sound coming from it when im sat infront if it. Slightly to the side and its gone, but sat infront and you cn hear it. Its quiet , but still very annoying.

Anyone know what chances i have of getting a replacement? And if so , what the turnaround is like? I dont want to have to wait days and days for a replacement, kids would go crazy.

Most plasmas buzz to some degree. It comes from the Switch Mode Power Supply. The question is whether it is within specification or not. If it's not audible at normal viewing distances, probably not, but if it is, you should have a case.

[ricflairandy]

Well it can be quite annoying hearing the buzz when dialogue is on. When there is music or other sfx you cant hear it as much. Im sitting about 6-8ft away and the strange thing is if you move to the side you cant hear it , but if you sit directly in the middle you can hear it.

Basicly i dont want to end up with empire direct saying it must be sent off to the manufactures warranty for repair as ill be without it for ages.

If the buzzing is too much on mine, i want a direct replacement. Because apart from that problem i love the tv. Its fantastic.

[dishdoc]

Hi guys, after some advise
I purchased my Yamaha Z9 from a local dealer at the end of november last year for £1700.I had been looking to upgrade my rx v1400 to something more HD friendly(component/hdmi inputs) so was interested in a 2600, or the forthcoming 2700, but was advised they had an ex dem z9 on special offer and for the price difference between the 2700 and the z9, the latter would be worth it in terms of sq, I'd always dreamed of owning a z9 since they'd been released so after some real soul-searching by myself( one thousand seven hundred pounds:eek: , what could i do with that amount of money, holiday for the family, home improvements etc) I decided it was a good deal, so i bought it.

Anyway, on the 11th january i noticed there was no sound being output from the rear left, or the rear back left speakers. Did a speaker sweep with the test tone - nothing from the said 2 channels, checked all connections etc but everything was in order so phoned the dealer, who asked me to return it to the shop, which i did. On the 18th i recieved a phonecall to say they could find nothing wrong, and to come and collect it - which I did the following day, after seeing it working in the service dept.

After getting it home and setting it up I found that it was still faulty, so phoned straight back up - but was told it had to be something I was doing wrong!!!:mad: I've been a commercial satellite installer since 1990, installing into pubs and large hotel systems, so I think i know what i'm doing:mad: Spent all last weekend swapping cables etc but could find nothing so phoned and asked if they could come out to my house to see the fault.I was told that they could, but if it was something I'd done I'd be charged for the call.
The guy came out yesterday and said "lets see what you're doing wrong" cheeky b*****d:mad: He checked everything( about an hour, lots of head scratching) then he declared " well it's definatley faulty - it'll have to go back to yamaha" We boxed it up and put it into the back of his car and took it away.

Basically, do i have to accept a repair, or am I within my rights to demand a new unit? I know it was greatly reduced, but it was sold " Ex Dem - As New"
Regards,
Dishdoc