led lighting

[aarons]

thinking of installing some led lighting in my room either in floor or on skirting .seen some at b&q anyone got experience of these and wondered if they can be worked via x10.cheers

[cskates]

thinking of installing some led lighting in my room either in floor or on skirting .seen some at b&q anyone got experience of these and wondered if they can be worked via x10.cheers

The Colour Master Deluxe jobs? I bought a set from B&Q and returned them. They would be useful as marker lights (and the colour cycling is cool), but weren't bright enough for what I wanted. They only have two tri-colour LEDs inside them, diffused over the whole surface. I would say they aren't dimmable since they are connected through an electronic controller. You could use x10 to switch the power, but when they switch on they go into the colour cycle mode and not the last mode selected.

[Darren Blake]

Interested in this as I have been working for ages on doing some DIY LED mood lighting for my lounge. The project is right on the back burners until the house is decorated though (I'd much rather be holding a soldering iron than a paint roler :( )

I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't bring some low cost, high-brightness colour changing LED lights out before I get around to doing it.

[aarons]

only really need them for mood lighting and will probably be placed on skirting board do you think they will be ok for this purpose.suppose could always try and return if not suitable

[IronGiant]

We have to dim lights to use our projector, would these LEDS be bright enough for background mood lighting while watching a film ie how dim are they?
Dave

[Paul D]

I've just finished installing (in the ceiling)the small blue 15mm LEDs from B&Q.
You get 10 lights per box, and i've used two boxes.
As mentioned, they only give a slight background glow in a dark room.
They are enough to be able to read etc, but not too bright to wash out the screen.
They do look bright when stared at, and give the ceiling a kind of "blue" starfield effect.
They come with each light fitted with a 5m molded plug cable. These then plug into a power module, which itself has a 12v adaptor. Meaning the lights can be spread very far apart!

There is a problem connecting to a X10 "lamp" module, as they need a minimum of 60 watts to work correctly.
I'm not sure how a "appliance" module would work, but they click loudly and would need to be sound proofed.
I'm planning on adding a UV bulb to make up the wattage load, and just place it out of the way somewhere etc..
The will dim, but some of the LEDs dim quicker than others. I will see what happens when i add the UV lamp.

I will try to post some pictures tonight(when i finish work!).

[Darren Blake]

Out of curiosity I had a look at the colour changing ones from B&Q. They are VERY dim, or at least they looked that way in the store. If you had loads of them in an otherwise darkened foom it would probably look a lot better. The system I was toying with building used three 4cd LEDs for each colour in each module - and four even brighter ones for red (which tends to naturally look dimmer anyway).

Homebase also do some LED kits (non-changing, blue or white). These come in three different sizes and use multi LEDs in each. Probably would work out more expensive though.

[Andrew_B]

What about those 'under car' lighting kits fitted by spotty teenagers to Saxo VTS's and the like? Could these be used to any reasonable effect?

http://www.litewave.co.uk/led_ground_lighting_ulx300.htm

http://www.litewave.co.uk/led_ground_lighting_ufo.htm

There were some cheaper ones too.

Andrew_b

[lynx]

If anyones interested, http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/cat.jsp?cId=102500&ts=30429

[WILD9]

Those boy racer Neon kits are a bit excessive, if you want some cheap bright cold cathode tubes try ebuyer (http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=899399638&action=c2hvd3N1YmNhdGVnb3J5X3BhZ2U=&subcat_uid=558) the problem with cathode tubes is the brigness tends to dim over a few years , you could also try lazer leds (http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=899399638&action=c2hvd3N1YmNhdGVnb3J5X3BhZ2U=&subcat_uid=442)their very bright but not diffused at all so youd need to do a bit of work as well as sourcing a 12v power supply to run them all from.

[RustyH]

do you work at a cnc place at all, or know anyone that does, I have just made some stainless steel light inserts for the skirting, and installed 3 7000mcd leds in, 2 blue and 1 pink to give a lovely mood. Each one has a total divided cost of about 20p :thumbsup: :thumbsup: as I have a very cheap LED provider (£9 for 100 LEDS :grin: :grin: )

I am also just installing 100 LED in my bedroom ceiling, at a total rough cost of about £30. This incluses a save 12v supply (regulated and rectified output source). I am just designing a circuit to fade in and out sets of LEDs from the sinlge power source

[thebrain]

You could also consider these lights... 240v LED (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Lamps_and_Tubes_Index/GU_Led/index.html) . I have just bought a few for testing. They are 20W 240V halogen replacements and are every bit as bright, but consume only 1.8W of power with a 50,000 hour life. From the testing I have done they don't dim at all, but they can be controlled with X10 (appliance module only).

If I replace all the lights in my house with these, I could run all my lights from only 72W! :laugh:

[RustyH]

Yeah, but from looking at them they dont have any lens caps, or LED light spreaders. Do there give a rather spot light like light distridutions, or does the light spread out to the whole room???

[thebrain]

I have replaced one of the standard halogens I have along the edge of the room (i.e. the halogens give a great pattern on the wall when on). The LED light is as bright, but the colour of the light is quite blue. The light is spread out and not at all focused like the Halogen. The lights come with a glass fronted bulb, and a lense would be essential to give the halogen light distribution effect.

[migube]

Hi Thebrain,

Do you know why the X10 appliance module ( do you mean the AD10 module?) work, while it normally needs >60 Watt?

Thanks!
migube

[thebrain]

The X10 AD10 Appliance modules work fine (I'm using several) with the LED lights. The X10 dimmable lighting modules however do not work (you get this strange effect where one or two of the LED's seem to be on (although dim) all the time!

[Alexg]

These are blue LED deck lights in my floor - purchased from a local Electrical wholesaler.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Alexg2k5/DSCF0094.jpg

-Alex.

[jblandford]

What wholesaler is that and which type of LED's are they - they look quire bright!

Many thanks

J

[NigeUK]

You can get LED lighting (http://www.think-lighting.co.uk) from these guys, and a controller to change colours from a wall mounted controller from www.AVR.uk.com (http://www.avr.uk.com)

[rbartlett]

You could also consider these lights... 240v LED (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Lamps_and_Tubes_Index/GU_Led/index.html) . I have just bought a few for testing. They are 20W 240V halogen replacements and are every bit as bright, but consume only 1.8W of power with a 50,000 hour life. From the testing I have done they don't dim at all, but they can be controlled with X10 (appliance module only).

If I replace all the lights in my house with these, I could run all my lights from only 72W! :laugh:

I currently have 15 x 50w halogen sots dotted round my house and as the wiring is 20+ years old and quite dodgy I though this would be an ideal solution. However I was very disapointed by the light both quality and quantity. Thusntil a decent hi intensity white light LED replacement I will continue with the 'gens

Cheers

Richard

[your_passenger]

I recommend these guys and these Products -

http://www.qvsdirect.com/search.php?mode=search&by_title=Y&by_shortdescr=Y&by_fulldescr=Y&by_productcode=Y&substring=led%20lighting&need_advanced_options=1&sort_field=orderby&sort_direction=0&forsale=Y&categoryid=&category_main=on&category_extra=on&search_in_subcategories=on&page=4

Theres more LED lighting on the site but ive linked you to the heart of it. Ive used these guys for lighting in the last 3 houses i've owned and i have to say the service is great and the prices very reasonable plus they have good wholesale discounts.

[blearyeyes]

Darren have you seen this:

http://www.bigclive.com/

I constructed one of these little beauties and it works a treat especially with 3 watt tri-coloured LEDs. I will be using this as the basis of some pretty cool mood lighting using cheap Chinese 1 watt LEDs which can be had for USD1 each!

[leon]

you could try here i have over 40 leds in my house and they are great for mood lighting and the electric bills are peanuts some of the led bulb i have sold in the past have a life span of over 90 years 24/4 lol :) you can leave them in your will ...i am in no way related to this link . just bought loads from them
http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/

[Oscarp]

Errrr... Can u just replace standard GU10s halogens with GU10 Led Lamps?? Is it that simple?? (My current GU10s are dimmable, but I'd replace the switch)

So I if I 20 GU10s in the kitchen I can just replace with 20 GU10 Led Lamps??
What about low voltage halogens.. what are the recommendations on replaceing these with Leds??
Cheers,
OscarP

[rbartlett]

I do worry about the light output. These LED's are great but from my experience offer little more than a 'glowworm in a jar' effect

Until they crack a super high 50+ watts equiv output giving a clear white light they will not be suitable for most situations past 'mood' lighting...


Cheers

Richard

[leon]

yes oscarp just replace them with the led they are 240v and the new ones can be dimmed . they are getting more and more powerfull as the months go on i think they are up to 50w of light using 3w of electric ..
you cant use them if you have low wattage lighting like the ones with a transformer .. they will be the thing of the future a few years ago lorries started to use them now alot of cars have them in the rear clusters..

[rbartlett]

yes oscarp just replace them with the led they are 240v and the new ones can be dimmed . they are getting more and more powerfull as the months go on i think they are up to 50w of light using 3w of electric ..
you cant use them if you have low wattage lighting like the ones with a transformer .. they will be the thing of the future a few years ago lorries started to use them now alot of cars have them in the rear clusters..

Sadly they're nearer < 20 watts and the white has an eerie blue tinge which doesn't help, however once sussed they will cut down the worlds energy consumption by around 50%

I was given one for a trial looking to replace a lot of Gu10's -sadly it's in an unused bedside lamp..

if someone can show me an equivalent decent to a 50w halogen spot I'll buy them but as yet I watch with interest..although I understand that there has been a breakthrough with regard to the intensity and whiteness so it shouldn't be too long..

Cheers

Richard

[leon]

my way of looking at it is that i can use 40 x 1w led downlighters for the price of one standard 40w haligon now that is bright hehe :thumbsup: you are right not so good for reading etc but it will slow global warming down big time and save a bomb on your bills :)

[TTT]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't bring some low cost, high-brightness colour changing LED lights out before I get around to doing it.[/QUOTE]

LED seems to attract a load of interest on here but it is not widely understood by the electrical trade (contractors or wholesalers) so information is scarce and often incorrect. Here is a little bit to get you started.

The state of LED today is as follows (pm me and I will correct anything that is misleading):

If you require high output, you require a "bulb" using Philips Luxeon LED chips. These are 1W or 2W each and I have seen MR16 fittings containing 3 of them to give a useful replacement for a 20-25W halogen and 7W AR111 lamps that have a massive output. Philips produce these in different versions, including warm white which is the best choice for residential task lighting. Also available are many different permutations of RGB arrays. The light outputs are huge but these chips are EXPENSIVE. www.luxeon.com

If you are looking for feature lighting, it may be possible to include a bulb containing 5mm LEDs. These are the devices designed for use as indicators rather than light sources. They are, however, FAR cheaper so any low-cost LED system will use these.

In answer to the orignial question, both 5mm and Luxeon chips are likely to increase their outputs, but there is no reason to suggest that the gap will be closed. As the cost saving benefits are massively valuable in the commercial sector, I cannot see Philips lowering the cost of the Luxeon chips any time soon. Remember that LED is in the order of 10 times more efficient than tungsten and the 50k+ hours service life reduces maintenance costs too.

Control of LED:

LED is the smoothest dimming light source currently available- completely linear from 0-100% duty cycle when the LED's own low voltage DC is pulse-width modulated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation).

The voltage driving LEDs is just several volts so LED lamps require drivers to convert the voltage from 230V 50Hz AC to xVDC where x is in the order 1-12V. These dimmers don't respond well to being fed a chopped up, bastardised, waveform from a conventional dimmer (search the wikipedia article for "triac"), and don't dim sensibly.

So what is required? The favoured approach is to use a dimmable LED driver. These will commonly require an unmolested 230V supply waveform and a control signal. This could be something flashy like DMX for sequenced control or just an analogue voltage between 0V and 10V. ie 230V and 10V = 100% output, 230V and 5v = 50% output, 230V and 0v = off. The latter approach is inexpensive to implement.

There is a way of generating these control voltages with lighting control systems and I believe 0-10V dimming wall plates are available. As stated above though, anything to do with LED is hard work due to the obstructive attitude of electricians and wholesalers (in my experience) to the whole technology.

Note that the "GU10 replacement" units include drive hardware and so cannot be dimmed.

I have no business interest in LED other than having controlled it a few times and I just tried to buy some fittings for my own kitchen.

[nephster]

Hi guys,

I'm very interested in doing something like this but am trying to cut down on the amount of ugly boxes with cables trailing from them plugged into the electrical sockets. Has anyone placed the transformer into the wall and wired it into eg the lighting circuit in some way? I hope this isn't a stupid question :god: