DVD players with DNR/video noise reduction?

[cjking]

I've found some DVDs have video noise (grain, dots switching on and off on surfaces in the image) that my Toshiba TVs DNR is good at reducing. I believe this noise is the fault of the recording, not the player, because it only happens with some recordings, usually older ones I think. (The Matrix is quite bad, for example.) Since the TVs DNR doesn't work when input is from a progressive scan player, it would be nice to find one that had the equivalent of the TVs DNR built-in. The Toshiba SD530 I tried had DNR, but turning it on seemed to soften/screw-up the picture to a huge degree, in a way the TVs built-in DNR doesn't.

I would be interested if anyone knows of players with good built-in noise reduction. I think all Panasonic players have something called "Mpeg noise reduction", I don't know if this is the same thing.

[Brogan]

The latest Pioneers have CNR and YNR.
YNR – Adjusts the amount of noise reduction in the Y (brightness) part of the video signal.
CNR – Adjusts the amount of noise reduction in the C (colour) part of the video signal.

I have them both turned off though as with an HDMI connection I believe they are redundant and I prefer to watch unmolested video.

[cjking]

I believe they are redundant

Does that mean you don't agree noise stems from the recording rather than other parts of the system?

I agree that I don't like the idea of the player or the TV monkeying about with the picture to try and improve it. If it is technically possible to improve a picture that has some noise (for whatever reason) then surely the people who recorded the DVD with their much more expensive equipment should already have done it? (Though I do recall reading somewhere that they do, or used to, introduce noise through carelessness in making the recording.)

I was thinking that maybe it's only a problem with older DVDs that were brought out in the early days of DVD when fewer people had big sets, since this type of noise disappears if your picture is small enough or you watch from further away. If this is true then maybe I should just mentally tune it out, it is only a minority of DVDs that I've noticed it on.

[Brogan]

Originally Posted by cjking

Does that mean you don't agree noise stems from the recording rather than other parts of the system?

No, I meant that with an HDMI connection there should be no 'noise' introduced from player to screen.

Yes there may be noise on the original recording but if there is, I'm happy to live with it rather than artificially tweak the picture which will also modify the good bits as well as the noise.

[cjking]

The latest Pioneers have CNR and YNR.

I was already thinking I might try the Pioneer 370 next, given that my Toshiba player seems to have compatibility issues with my Iscan. I'm now very tempted to try one when Richer Sounds start selling them.

[Brogan]

The 370-S is quite well specced in this regard:
Progressive Motion: Slow for static pictures, Fast for fast-moving pictures.
NR: Included are YNR, CNR, MNR and BNR to reduce brightness, colour, mosquito and block noise, respectively.
Sharpness (High/Mid): Allows well-focused, crisp images.
Detail: Sharpens the edges of objects with low video signal level.
Black/White Level: You can independently adjust the black level and white level for the best contrast.
Hue: Adjusts the overall colour of a picture. (Only available with S-video and composite video signals in an NTSC system)
Chroma Level: Choose washed-out colour or exaggerated, oversaturated colour, or anything in between.
Chroma Delay: Adjusts the timing between brightness and colour to produce clarity of detail, removing blur and colour smears.

[cjking]

I'm happy to live with it rather than artificially tweak the picture which will also modify the good bits as well as the noise

I've never really noticed the DNR in my TV making the (analog cable) picture quality worse. (I haven't actually used it with DVD other than when testing.) I use it on levels 1-3 out of six levels (0-5.) Level 1 compared to zero seems to do 80% of the "fixing", level 2 another 10%, after that it doesn't make much difference.

On the other hand, the Toshiba 530 DVD player DNR had an immediate and terrible effect.

Does the Pioneer DNR have a noticeable effect (in a good way with regard to noise or bad way with regard to screwing up the picture) when you turn it on, or do you leave it off because (like me) you are prejudiced in principal against monkeying about with the picture?

[cjking]

Our posts crossed - what you have told me about the 370 definitely makes me want one.

One issue I have with my Toshiba player via the Iscan is that there are no useful output settings, I have to turn the TV brightness down from 50 to 40 when I change from watching TV to watching the DVD player. With my old Wharfedale 750 via the Iscan it's even worse - I have to turn TV brightness down to 26!

(The Toshiba player does have different picture modes, however they change things in the wrong direction compared to the normal mode.)

[Brogan]

Originally Posted by cjking

Does the Pioneer DNR have a noticeable effect (in a good way with regard to noise or bad way with regard to screwing up the picture) when you turn it on, or do you leave it off because (like me) you are prejudiced in principal against monkeying about with the picture?

TBH, I can't remember now as it was a good 6 months ago when I did all my setting up.
I think I tried all the various options on both the DVD and plasma and in the end settled on having most things turned off as it just looked more natural.
The big problem though is there are just too many settings that interact with each other and you could literally spend weeks adjusting and still not hit on the optimum set-up.
I think sometimes there can be too many adjustments which work against the objective as most people just don't know where to start or have the time and patience to spend as long as it would take to fiddle with everything.
For example, on the 868 there is Prog. Motion, PureCinema, YNR, CNR, Sharpness High, Sharpness Mid, Detail, White Level, Black Level, Black Setup, Gamma, Hue, Chroma Level, Chroma Delay, HDMI Color Adjust, HDMI Detail and on the 504 there is Contrast, Brightness, Colour, Tint, Sharpness, Pro Adjust, Pure Cinema, Colour Temp, R High, G High, B High, R Low, G Low, B Low, MPEG NR, DNR, CTI, DRE, Colour Management R, Y, G, C, Brightness, MPEG NR.

Aaarrgghhh!!

[cjking]

I think the Pioneer web-site might be misleading.

When you look at the page for the 370 you get the impression that it has all the features you mention

When you look at the manual it says only the 470 has a video adjustment menu containing some of these settings, and on that menu the only noise reduction is BNR which can be set on/off.

Can anyone with a 370 confirm what it actually can do?

[Brogan]

I would suggest downloading the manual for the 370 and you can check for yourself.
Go here to search for any manual: http://www.service.pioneer-eur.com/p...earch?openform

This is all the results for the 370: http://www.service.pioneer-eur.com/p...rm&Modelnr=370

[cjking]

That's the manual I was talking about. It contradicts the web page. I think the web pages for all DVD players have a standard shared set of pop-ups, these are used to elaborate on what different features mean, however the pop-ups don't necessarily accurately describe the player in question. So the 370 and 470 share a manual, the 470 has a video adjustment menu, so somehow this results in the 370 page saying it has video adjustment. To top this error, the generic description of what it means for a Pioneer player to have video adjustment describes something much more comprehensive than even the 470 has.

Having said that, it still looks like a very good player for the price, just wish I hadn't got my hopes up re. the other features.