Can't Buy DV88+

[jspr]

Just tried to buy the DV88+ from creative-audio for £499 and they tell me arcam will not allow them to sell mail order !!!!!!

As I live a long way from creative-audio, arcam have just lost a very unhappy potential customer - their sales policy stinks.

[forrestgump]

you could have saved yourself the embarassment of asking them if you had read pervious threads on the subject, no arcam goods are sold via mail order, the subject has been discussed at length already, for such an awesome product as the 88 plus find a way to get to the store! If your local arcam delaer has any dv88's left he should sell it to you for £600 like mine did, you will probably spend £100 getting to creative anyway! I have used numerous dvd/cd players and none touch the 88 plus for movies and music, you'd be daft to pass the player off cos of a policy that has stood since arcam were founded!

[jspr]

Forrestgump

Thanks for your reply - you're right, if i'd searched for 'do arcam sell via mail order' then I probably would have saved myself ringing creative-audio
I did contact my local arcam dealer who said they might be able to get hold of a 88+ and sell it to me for £600 - however do I really want to pay an extra £100 ?

My other option was the denon 2200 which I can get for about £470 - do you think the arcam is really worth the extra £130 ?? Appreciate any advice.

Originally Posted by jspr

Forrestgump

Thanks for your reply - you're right, if i'd searched for 'do arcam sell via mail order' then I probably would have saved myself ringing creative-audio
I did contact my local arcam dealer who said they might be able to get hold of a 88+ and sell it to me for £600 - however do I really want to pay an extra £100 ?

My other option was the denon 2200 which I can get for about £470 - do you think the arcam is really worth the extra £130 ?? Appreciate any advice.

That is why companies like Arcam won't allow mail-order sales. They expect you to go to the dealer and demo their kit against the competition. Of course, you could rely on reviews, but that depends on how much you trust them. FWIW in the reviews I've seen, the 2200 wins as an all-rounder, but even the DV78 beats it as a CD player.

[rags]

Originally Posted by nikyzf

That is why companies like Arcam won't allow mail-order sales. They expect you to go to the dealer and demo their kit against the competition. Of course, you could rely on reviews, but that depends on how much you trust them. FWIW in the reviews I've seen, the 2200 wins as an all-rounder, but even the DV78 beats it as a CD player.

Thats just a pure excuse. It's clearly a way to restrict competition between Arcam dealers (keeping sales local) thereby maintaining prices. It's anti-competitive and it stinks.

Originally Posted by rags

Thats just a pure excuse. It's clearly a way to restrict competition between Arcam dealers (keeping sales local) thereby maintaining prices. It's anti-competitive and it stinks.

I see your point, and consumer associations have compaigned against this practice for as long as I can remember. However, in the realm of specialist goods, I don't think it's quite that simple. Would you buy AV or hi-fi gear without a demo? If you're happy just to buy on price/specs/reviews, then fair enough, and you could just buy from the cheapest box-shifter. If not, you will want a demo and good facilities for that are expensive: a dealer offering those will not last long if the same goods are available for substantially less elsewhere. That is why specialist manufacturers like Arcam, Linn, and Meridian supply only "authorised" dealers.

I used to share your view. Now my view is: if you dislike this policy, buy other products elsewhere. It's not as if these are essential goods. We have a choice :o)

[jspr]

You're right - we do have a choice. Having been refused the opportunity to buy the 88+ at £100 cheaper from creative-audio by arcams selling policy I have taken my business elsewhere - I have just bought a Denon 2200 and am absolutely delighted with my purchase (£469.99 from Leconcepts). It is a major improvement from my old Pioneer 717. Would the arcam have been as good or better than the denon ? - I will never know, but I do know arcam are £500 poorer off.

All because you didn't want to demo the products? I find that a strange attitude to spending £500.

What else would you buy without seeing/hearing it?

I always demo everything audio that I buy, I have a good relationship with my dealer, and he cuts me some slack.

Perhaps you should try it.

Paul.

[jspr]

I've actually demo'd the denon plus a couple of pioneers, the local arcam dealer didn't have any 88+ in stock and said that as they were a discontinued model he would only get one in from arcam if I placed an order ! (Not very impressed there !) £600 was really just too much outside my budget - anyway I'm now very happy with what I've got and that's all that really matters.

[robfitzp]

Demoing equipment at home is beneficial as you get to check it out in your own system and can use it long enough to get over the initial wow/different factor.

In most hifi shops I think it is essentially a pointless exercise unless it is so bad or so good that the initial impression from the hour or so you spend with it is enough to make up your mind. I think this is particularly true of audio, perhaps less so with video, but then video is more of a muchness anyway.

[rags]

Still doesnt stack up. Why would Arcam care whether we demo their equipment or not ??

Anyways just because products are sold via mail order doesnt stop you from demoing them.

[Ikki]

Why all the venom directed at Arcam?

No body is forcing you to buy their products and it is up to them to decide how they market them. They have a reputation to maintain and are naturally careful about the distribution of the DVD players, etc that they manufacture.

I hope that you are happy with your purchase of the Denon, don't let the fact that a little more outlay and a nice drive would have bought a superior machine bother you.

[rags]

Originally Posted by Ikki

Why all the venom directed at Arcam?

No body is forcing you to buy their products and it is up to them to decide how they market them. They have a reputation to maintain and are naturally careful about the distribution of the DVD players, etc that they manufacture.

I hope that you are happy with your purchase of the Denon, don't let the fact that a little more outlay and a nice drive would have bought a superior machine bother you.

I actualy do own an Arcam DVD player and have just also ordered a DV79. I like their products but I dont like the fact that my options as to which dealer I buy from are limited. My points are not Arcam specific as the same applies to a number of other brands.

Personally I drove to Shrewsbury to buy a DV89 as I think it is one hell of a bargain.

[rags]

Originally Posted by nikyzf

I see your point, and consumer associations have compaigned against this practice for as long as I can remember. However, in the realm of specialist goods, I don't think it's quite that simple. Would you buy AV or hi-fi gear without a demo? If you're happy just to buy on price/specs/reviews, then fair enough, and you could just buy from the cheapest box-shifter. If not, you will want a demo and good facilities for that are expensive: a dealer offering those will not last long if the same goods are available for substantially less elsewhere. That is why specialist manufacturers like Arcam, Linn, and Meridian supply only "authorised" dealers.

I used to share your view. Now my view is: if you dislike this policy, buy other products elsewhere. It's not as if these are essential goods. We have a choice :o)

I may buy some equipment without a demo but whether I chose to do so or not is my prerogative and not Arcams. When I went to order my DV79 my local dealer didnt say "oh you must have a demo against the Pioneer 868i" and neither did Creative Audio when I picked up my DV89. If I had asked I am sure that both dealers would be willing to demo me the Arcam or the Pioneer (in fact Creative Audio already had a Pioneer up and running which I watched briefly). I mean its not as if Pioneer or other more mainstream brand dealers arent willing to demo equipment to you !!!

I mean what did Arcam, the dealer or I gain by forcing me to drive up to Shrewsbury I didnt demo the player and I may never see Shrewsbury again let alone use the same dealer for future purchases. If they are after local sales they shouldnt have sold 100+ units at a knock down price to Creative Audio - did they really expect that all the units would end up in the hands of local consumers ?

[Ikki]

Rags,

The above comments were not meant for you.

As far as Arcam 'forcing' you to drive to Shrewsbury is concerned, I was told that Arcam had asked all their dealers if they wanted to sell the last of the DV88+ & DV89 stock at these low prices, but that only Creative optioned to buy a significant quantity of the stock. Apparently other dealers chose not to take advantage of this offer for whatever reason, and those that had remaining stock seem to have been selling them at a price premium.

Again I don't see where Arcam or Creative are in the wrong.