Power or preamp for nicely coloured music?

[Daneel]

I have come to the conclusion that for me, neutrality throughout my system is not desirable for music. To improve things on this front I can do one of two things. Either change my power amp or preamp for one that colours the sound nicely. I have a feeling that a tube preamp would be perfect.

I'm considering selling my Parasound and replacing it with a Primare but I feel that will mean movies will suffer as I don't feel the need to colour that sound in a similar way. This leads to a preference for a preamp, although I then have the problem of connecting both the stereo preamp and my receiver up to the same front speakers.

If anyone has suggestions (say under £700 for stereo preamp or power amp) for this, it would be appreciated.

[Peter Baker]

I think your Parasound should be capable of exceelent sound, but, in my experience, none of the Japanese amps pass muster for music. I would therefore recommend changing your pioneer for something else. Perhaps an Arcam or Rotel or NAD, or a second hand Meridian/Naim/Primare
Best of luck
Peter

[Hawklord]

Hi Daneel, I would approach it in a different way and look at the source your using. One of the reasons I replaced the CD72T cdp was because it was very neutral sounding making my cd's very clinically without much emotion (imo). The cd72T was a marked improvement over my dvdp for cd music (obviously) and did a fantistic job of showing me what a good cdp was capable of. It managed to inject new life into my cd collection and rejuvinated my interest again after many years.
Replacing the CD72t with the Naim CD5I has improved things futher. Not only does it appear to be more detailed but also seems to add more dynamics and emotion compared to the Arcam.
If you keep the same amplification that your happy with av wise and add a source that gives you the sound you like then you'll have the best of both worlds hopefully. I'd get back on the cdp trail and find the player that suits your musical needs rather than changing the processing stage that may affect other aspects of your av set up

you appear to have a quicker turnaround of gear than I do lol. Don't you just love this av malarky

[mutley]

i have had a 2011. Excelent in Movies, not in music.

I have the same power and front speakers as you.

I have great music!!! The thing is i swapped my 2011 for a Second-hand Meridian 561M.

[buns]

I would recommend a meridian 565 or 561. Alternatively I like your valve amp approach..... id def stick with the power amp. Dont forget that its the preamp is the important one

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[Reiner]

Either change my power amp or preamp for one that colours the sound nicely.

Actually what the world needs are three things: neutral speakers, a neutral amp with main in/out and ... a graphic equalizer.
Then there is no need to find 'your' speaker or a 'warm' sounding amp etc., just buy the stuff without auditioning and adjust the equalizer according to your preferences. Done.


Note: the above post may contain a certain level of sarcasm.

[buns]

Originally posted by Reiner
Note: the above post may contain a certain level of sarcasm.

absolutely priceless!

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[Daneel]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Peter: The thing is that when I tried a Primare amp with my Pioneer as a pre and the 602s. I LOVED the sound. I should have bought there and then but I hadn't heard any other poweramps at that point so I declined until I had more experience.

The problem with the Primare was it actually sounded pretty crap in direct mode, but engaging MCACC (which without the power amp it does a good job of clean up nasties in the frequency response) made it sound great. That means that if I do add the Primare, I need some EQ for both movies and music, because the amp is severely coloured.

Reiner: I actually gave that serious consideration and despite your sarcasm, I think it could work!

Mutely: You noticed my fronts are now JM Lab Electra 926s not 602s right?

Hawklord: I've heard some of the best CD (Naim, Linn, Accuphase) sources out there and although I wasn't demoing those in particular, I can't say I found any of them very impressive, especially at the price. I will get around to doing a dedicated CDP demo at some point but thus far I''m not convinced.

Buns: I would love to get my hands on a Meridian but it's looking somewhat difficult without actually buying one. I'm at a total loss on the pre-amp side, does anyone have any suggestions at all?

[Ettepet]

Difficult.

You have many different components, making it hard to choose.

I'm almost inclined to suggest a seperate (dedicated) HT speaker-set, which don't have to be expensive or BIG, but tonally matched. You could sell your B&W's. If you choose proper HT-speakers that match the Pioneer, than you have got that angle covered without any extra (HT-) amp.

I don't know what amp or pre-amp matches the Electra's best for the sound you'd like to get out of them. Try googlin' for other users, and see what they feel matches. (a site with user reviews is often a good one) My experience is that power-amps also color sound, especially the cheaper ones.

OR:

You could sell the Pioneer, and buy a Yamaha 1400/2400, a Denon 3805, or a second-hand Rotel 1066. It would depend on what sound you prefer. Maybe the Yamaha/Denon are also 'crap' at pre-amping the Parasound.

[buns]

Daneel,

Maybe you could ask around and see whether anyone local could show you their Meridian? The other one worth looking towards (on a slightly more limited budget) are the lex DC series...... they are pushing £500 which is soooo low

preamp wise that is difficult. I use a korato kvp10 dual mono valve pre and dual mono valve power supply. I think the combo comes in at under £1500 and is available through A-audiosolutions and their dealers. It is way too exotic for most on here so dont expect anyone to be able to tell you anything about it! Others I tried were mainly lower end. A linn kolector (very nice but lacked emotion) a naim 72 (reallly really fast paced but just too unrelenting for me) and an audiolab 8000Q (very good but a bit on the dull side for me) all pased the initial testing and were demo'd in house. But as for rivals over £1k...... I really cant tell

all the best

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[mutley]

Originally posted by Daneel
Thanks for the replies guys.

Mutely: You noticed my fronts are now JM Lab Electra 926s not 602s right?

Nop, sorry

[Magic]

Just to add my hapeth. It's always a problem balancing hifi & av sytems as the av processor requires additional signal processing & somethimes video switching. I agree with Bins about the Meridian 565 as it is a very good sounding unit & is a real bargain. I much prefered it to the older Lexicons, TAGs & Arcams. It's decent with music, but not great.

The preamp is really important & it's hard to get a decent one without shelling out serious cash. I'd recommend combining a 2nd hand 565 (£600-700)with a 2nd hand ATC CA2 Pre (£450). The CA2 is a fabulous pre, but uses XLR outputs so you'll need XLR/RCA converters (Maplin). This would be OK with the Parasound, but works great with Primare (better than their own pre/processors).

Also have you tried using hard isolation under the source. Nordost Pulsar Points are excellent & can really lift the performance of DVD/CD players (the thin metal casework is a nightmare that really holds them back). I'd try these first.

Cables can also have a significant effect so what are you using? Parasound sounds coloured compared to Primare, which suits av use nicely, but with the right cables Primare can be both open & full, without sounding cold. I've just changed over to to a Proceed system which is excellent for both. This has now been discontinued, but if you look around the PAV/PDSD combo can be had for around £1k (originally £14k). This is a great combination that is a steal for that much. There's no PLII or DDDEX, but their stero surround is v. good.

[avanzato]

Originally posted by Daneel
The problem with the Primare was it actually sounded pretty crap in direct mode, but engaging MCACC (which without the power amp it does a good job of clean up nasties in the frequency response) made it sound great. That means that if I do add the Primare, I need some EQ for both movies and music, because the amp is severely coloured.

Which are you saying is 'severely coloured' the Primare or Pioneer?

[Daneel]

Originally posted by Magic
Just to add my hapeth. It's always a problem balancing hifi & av sytems as the av processor requires additional signal processing & somethimes video switching. I agree with Bins about the Meridian 565 as it is a very good sounding unit & is a real bargain. I much prefered it to the older Lexicons, TAGs & Arcams. It's decent with music, but not great.

The preamp is really important & it's hard to get a decent one without shelling out serious cash. I'd recommend combining a 2nd hand 565 (£600-700)with a 2nd hand ATC CA2 Pre (£450). The CA2 is a fabulous pre, but uses XLR outputs so you'll need XLR/RCA converters (Maplin). This would be OK with the Parasound, but works great with Primare (better than their own pre/processors).

Also have you tried using hard isolation under the source. Nordost Pulsar Points are excellent & can really lift the performance of DVD/CD players (the thin metal casework is a nightmare that really holds them back). I'd try these first.

Cables can also have a significant effect so what are you using? Parasound sounds coloured compared to Primare, which suits av use nicely, but with the right cables Primare can be both open & full, without sounding cold. I've just changed over to to a Proceed system which is excellent for both. This has now been discontinued, but if you look around the PAV/PDSD combo can be had for around £1k (originally £14k). This is a great combination that is a steal for that much. There's no PLII or DDDEX, but their stero surround is v. good.

Thanks a lot for your time people, those are some in-depth replies.

Magic:
If the CA2 (I'm demoing one this weekend) or similar works well, I shouldn't have any need for the 565 as I'm more than happy with the Pioneer for movies.

Re isolation and cables. Despite my best efforts I can't tell the difference between my Arcam CD72T and my old Marantz CD4000. Given this I can't imagine that new cables or isolation thingys will make a difference for me.

I'm very surprised to hear you say the Parasound is coloured and the Primare is neutral as I've found the opposite, although there are differences between the new Halo series and the older amps, to which were you refering?

I would love to get my hands on some Proceed kit, any suggestions where I can source it?

Buns: I was looking at a 8000Q just a few days ago but they seem to go for about £400, which given their age seems rather high. I'll look into that preamp you are using and I can certainly demo the Naim.

avanzato: The Primare.

[avanzato]

Hmm? Like Magic I would have said Primare had a fairly neutral sound.

Can you remember what the MCACC processing gave the Primare that it didn't have originally. That might be the easiest way to pinpoint what it is you are after.

OTOH If the Pioneer Eq is 'improving' the sound and you go for a Pre or Power that gives you that sound straight. It might be that you end up buying something that only pleases you with the current system layout in the room you are using now. Even just moving the speakers then could put you back to sq. one.