Powering Screens

[windfall]

Hi all

Happy New Year to you.

I Purchased a NexNix screen (7ft Elec 16x9) and have mounted it. Ihave now also mounted my pj.

The end of the cable hanging from the screen shows 4 cables, Live/Neautral and one cable for up and one for down. These plug into the relay switch provided, unfortunately I am not at all conversant with electrical connections. I guess I need a bit of 3 core flex (or two core??) to connect the other end of the relay to 240 AC?

One question .. Can I connect this to my Amp for the switched plugs. FYI I have a Yamaha DSP A5 and plan to change this for a Yamaha 1400 or 2400 in a few months, One last request - has anyone used the infra red option for the NexNix screen? The chap at NexNix says these are £130+VAT. Any one got any experience on these at all?

Kind regards

Tony

[petrolhead]

Out of interest. Is it a 7' screen. The reason I ask is that they advertise a 200 and 250 CM screen which is 6.5' and 8'. I am wondering if the canb get a 7' (213) screen?

Have you projected onto the screen yet. If so di the image fit perfectly within the white area?

The relays sem very expensive for what they are!!.

I am concidering building one. One thing you will either need to find a relay that does not draw more current than the Amp can supply or figure our some other way.

[Dodgey]

If you are talking about the rocker switch then it should have come with a wiring diagram (you need a three core - twin and earth cable). If you don't have the diagram, shout and I'll help you....

[windfall]

Hey all

Right I have now got the screen fully up and working and the image off my old panny AE100 looks great! To be honest the screen quality is excellent and makes the pj look a little weak.

To Answer questions - Petrolhead - No the image from the 16:9 pj is not correctly within the white area of the screen in fact the width is ok but the height is not..is this a prob that you have?

With regards to the wiring diagram I followed it like a ludite and was amazed it worked...I went and purchased some twin and earth and was up and running inside 10 mins.

The relay did come with screen.

I must say I'm really impressed with it as is the lady of the house.

Well I'm off to watch some films and eastenders!

Laters All

Tone

[Dodgey]

Good to hear you got it going! I've never had a screen with a perfect fit. With all of mine I have had to have the sides overlapping onto the black to get the top and bottom to meet the black border. That's partly what the black border is there for!

[petrolhead]

To Answer questions - Petrolhead - No the image from the 16:9 pj is not correctly within the white area of the screen in fact the width is ok but the height is not..is this a prob that you have?

This is not good. Surely someone gets it rights.

My draper overlapped on the right and my current screen is a joke!

[windfall]

Hi all

The only thing I would complain about having used the screen for a couple of days now is that it is s l o w to drop. I really could do with a remote trigger.

Does anyone know...

1, Can these drop down when powered from an amp and then go back up when the amp is powered off
<or>
2, Similar to above except powered from a projector, mine PTAE100 does not have a fed but the sparky who fitted it ran an isolation switch for me and he wants to know that if the projector is switched on from the isolation point would the screen drop. The prob is that if the switch is turned off the screen will remain down..not good.

Answers on a postacrd please!

Finally nice to see Sky via S-VHS as well.

Picture is really awsome !

Cheers

Tony

[petrolhead]

Tony , Sky via S-VHS, did you used to watch it thro composite and have the chance to SVHS made a big difference?

If the amp have a trigger then this can be used to opperate a 240V capable relay. The this you need to get is whats the voltage and max current avaialable from the amp trigger and then buy suitable relay.

[Dodgey]

All you need it a 240v latching relay. You want it so that live is always sent to the "up" wire for the screen, UNLESS, live is present from the amp on the relay coil, in which case, live will get sent to the "down" wire.

The other way, which I am seriously considering is simply replacing the supplied rocker switch with a "latching" (i.e. a switch that stays up or down) switch. This way you simply flick up or down. The screen adjuster stops do the rest. The only thing you can't do with this is adjust the screen height manually, but would never want to do that....

[windfall]

Hi all again
Thanks for the info, Dodgey - the second option you mentioned sounds good, does the screens power stop when you hit the bottom and the top of its run on its own?

I reckon I'll go for a remote option, this way one day I may be able to press a button on a remote and watch the whole system power up and the lights go down! That smy utopia!

Laters

[Dodgey]

OK, you are going to like this :-)

I've been researching, and spending :-)

1) Yes, the screen stops at it's top and bottom stop points (adjustable)

2) Forget the 2 way latching rocker switch, which has been a nighmare to locate, I have found this!!!

http://www.quasarelectronics.com/3157.htm

It is a key fob (radio) operated relay board. So now, I will be able to hit a button on a keyfob and the screen will come all the way down. Hit it again, and it will go up. I will leave the manual rocker switch in place (in series) so if the r/c fails, I can still operate the screen. The kit can be ordered pre-made if you don't like electronics. I have actually ordered the 4 channel version (you only really need one channel) so I can switch my "behind screen" lamps on and off remotely :-)

If you are worried about the complexity, don't. It's dead simple electronics. You feed the relay board 8-12 volts with a standard power supply/dropper. Then, run a pair of wires from the up and down wires for the screen to the "NC" and "ND" terminals of the deisred relay (the basic has 2 channels, you only need one) and run a permanent live to the "C" terminal of the relay. (assume the screen is live switched, if it is neutral switched then run a neutral to the "C" terminal instead.

Hey presto! Eaqch press of the button will send the screen to the top ot bottom. You could of course wire it so you have to hold one button for up, and one for down, but that would be missing the point! Mind you, with the 4 channel version you could have one button for all-up/all-down and then separate buttons for manual up and down

[windfall]

Nice one mate . I will order the fully completed one tomorrow!

With regard to your lights - how are these wired in. I have four downlighters, two 100 watt linears and two downlighters in the fire place, how could you get say the fireplace lights to perate with this switch?

Thanks again
Tone

[petrolhead]

Will this work with any rmote then Dodgey?

[Dodgey]

OK
1) you need their remote, it has an encrypted learning function.

2) wiring in lights - well, easy, as long as you don't exceed the amp/watt drawer recommended by the relays - the data is on the web site. 100W lamps should not be a problem (they recommend using it to switch on coffe-makers!) The wiring is simple...

Say you have a light, you basically cut the live wire - put one end in the "C" socket in the relay / channel you want to use and the other end in the "ND" socket on the same relay. That way, when you don't press the button, the relay is passing the Live from "C" to "NC" (stand for Normally Connected) - which goes nowhere, so the light is off. When you press the button, the current is passed from "C" to "ND" - which your lamp Live is connected to, so the current flows and the light comes on. The same principal can be applied to a light that is wired to a wall fitting, you need to interrupt the live with the relay. With a wall switch you will of course have to leave the switch in the ON position all the time for the relay to work.

If you fin your light is on when it should be off then simply swap the wires over in "NC" and "ND". As long as you understand how a relay works then it all makes sense.

I'm going to use it to control 1 pair of small "desk" lamps and an uplighter. That way I can switch off the main room lights (I have LOTS) and then when I'm ready to start the film, lower the screen and finally switch off the front lights with the remote :-)

[Dodgey]

Well, I received the kit yesterday and buy 10pm I had it all completed and wired in. Now I have a car alrm style fob with 4 buttons. Button 1 drops the blind with one touch and raises it with another touch. Button 2 controls my two front "behind screen" lamps and button 3 controls a tall light for pre-movie illumination.

:----) All for £45 :-)))))

[petrolhead]

You seem as pleased as punch - well done and enjoy :)

[HDPete]

Hi guys,

I've got hold of a 2nd hand 7ft seleco 240v powered screen (collect it on saturday!).

I'm ordering the new Meridian G Series which has 12v triggers.

How can I use the 12v triggers to move the 240v screen up/down.

Will this box of tricks do it? But I don't want to use the remote, just the 12v trigger, with something clever converting the voltages?

Any advice very much appreciated.

Pete

[HDPete]

http://www.quasarelectronics.com/3084.htm

Ah! a bit of searching.... Will this do the job?

I haven't a clue with electronics, but this seems straight forward enough.

Will it do?

Pete

[Dodgey]

Spot on. That's exactly what you want. Basically it works like this....

Relays: A relay is a switch that is operated by a current rather than phisically touching/pushing it. It uses an electro magnet to move the switch to position 1 or 2.

The point of this is simple, you can use electronics to switch different currents. Your 12v signal operates the electro-magnet which in turn makes the connections for the 240v. The electro magnet is not electrically connected to the 240v switch, only phisically, so the 12v never "touches" the 240v.

On the relay you will have the trigger input (12v plus and minus). This is where your trigger from the amp goes. You will then have one 240v "Input" or "common" and two outputs. On the relays from the above company they are labelled "C" for common, "ND" for "normally disconencted" and "NC" for normally connected.

Wire the 240 live that normally goes to the screen into the "common" "C" input on the relay, and wire the 240v up and down wires from the screen to the "NC" and "ND" terminals on the relay.

You want the up wire to go to "ND". This means when the relay does not have 12v (i.e. it is normally disconnected) it will pass the 240v live to the up wire. When there is 12v present the relay will flip / switch and the 240v live will go to the "NC" terminal which is connected to your down wire.

This all assumes that your screen automatically stops at it's upper and lower extremes (I can't imagine it won't)

[windfall]

Thats so well put dodgey - have you considered writing a book on this??? :)

Tony

[Dodgey]

;)

[HDPete]

Wow!

Many many thanks for that guys!!

I'll order one up straight away, and let you know how I get on.

Thanks again.
Pete.

[paul1672]

hi there.
i'm really interested in the idea of switching my amp on and watching my screen come down.
can someone tell me if it's possible to do this with my pioneer vsx-d2011 amp and a nexnix electric screen?
in a similar thread i have running someone mentioned looking to see if my amp has a 12v trigger output.
is this what i need?
any help would be greatly appreciated as i really dont want to spend a packet on a remote.
many many thanks
paul

[windfall]

Hi Paul

I purchased the remote option from Nexnix in the end - cost £115.

I wired it in and its great - a bit more expensive but I wanted an immediate ROI when I purchased it and thats what I got. I also purchased a pronto 950 which is now configured to operate the whole lot except my lights which are still manually controlled.

I cant help you with the 12v output on your amp unfortunately but perhaps run a thread and kick off the discussion?

Cheers

Tone

[ReTrO]

There are a few options for the 12v control and they depend on what you want to do and what your kit can do.

At the basic level you can buy a 12v mains relay. This will basicaly use the 12v feed from the receiver and immediately trip the mains side of the relay to drop your screen. The only issue with this is whether your receiver will output enough current to trip the relay, you'll typically need 100mA+, but that is down to the spec of the relay you choose.

If you don't have enough juice from the receiver or fancy going for something more elaborate you could look at something we distribute at work called an MCU-300. It's probably overkill in this scenario but info on it is here: http://www.marata.co.uk/automation.htm This unit will take 12v, contact closure, RS232, RS485 or RC5 IR commands and control 3 relays, including one that is mains powered for a screen. So you could do lifts, curtains, blinds etc addtionally, have them timed etc.

Regards

Richard
Technical Support @ Marata Vision
www.marata.co.uk www.vutec.co.uk

[armxz02]

I have read the info on automating electric screens (great stuff)

Just a quick question, I am thinking of buying the Nexnix 16:9 90" and automating the screen (2-channel UHF Remote control kit).

http://www.quasarelectronics.com/3157.htm

Anybody tried this with a NexNix or Grandview screen?

I really just need to know exactly which components are required to automate the "up/down" function on the NexNix or Grandview screen (will the above kit work on any electric screen????).

Do I only need this 3157KT 2-channel UHF Remote Control Kit (is it prebuilt and ready to use, also do I need anything else? - does it include both the 2 channel circuit board and keyfob?)

Is the NexNix screen any good, what do you guys recommend for the same price?
Should I be concerned about non-tensioned electric screens long term.....any major problems?

Any help will be appreciated.

Sorry Im a newbie
Armxz

[Dodgey]

Mate, sorry, had no time to reply to the PM... anyway..

The kit - everything you need is there... apart from

12v power supply for the circuit board- any cheapy will do from tandy or the likes of (the kit supplier does them). You can even power the circuit board with a 12v "car alarm" type micro 12v battery (the type you find in an alarm fob) - it's all in the instructions.

Project box. You could build the kit and that's it. Or buy it prebuilt, but it could do with a box for safety and tidyness. Just get the kit (or assembled) measure it, then go to tandy or Maplin and buy a plastic project box that it will fit in.

A bit of 3 core slimline mains flex.

Power supply £5, box £3

Mine is still working 100% with my nexnix screen (which is unbeatable for the money) AND my lights.

Get the kit, or prebuilt (especially if you are not familiar with soldering) and then drop a line (here) and I'll give you the exact wiring instructions (I think they are pretty much on this thread already). Colour by colour, wire by wire.

It really is easy, and you will be chuffed to bits with the results. once I explain how to hook it up to the screen, the lights will make even easier sense.

p.s. the key fob comes with it's own battery.

[Dodgey]

oh yes - kit - you get the fob, fob battery, kit (or made kit).

Spend the extra few pounds and get the 4 channel. Then you can add lights if you feel the need (I can lower my screen, and then switch off two small table lamps behind the screen with the remote), plus another lamp.

As for the screen. For the cost nothing comes close. Electrically. People talk about non tab tensioned screens curling... mine curls a bit on one of the black edges, and I have a few small ripples on the bottom right of the screen. But once you fire up the projector they 100% disappear.

[armxz02]

Thanks Dodgey for all the advice and helpful tips.

Probably go for the 4-channel prebuilt version, remote control lights....yes please


:smashin:

[windfall]

Dodgey

I have exactly the same ripples on the bottom right edge of my screen as well. The black edges havn't curled as yet but as for the ripples I noticed them a couple of days ago.

What has caused this? Any Idea - is this a reasonable issue for the warranty dept? Apart from this I wholly recommend the screen - just wish the 16:9 image out of the PJ would fit into the white area !!

Tone

[Dodgey]

In reply to your PM (try and keep it public so others can share) - the relay kit is not specifically for the Nexnix screen. Any screen that uses power in one wire for up, and another wire for down will work with the relay kit.

Also, your electric screen must auto-stop at the top and bottom. Would be odd if it did not!

[paul1672]

any chance i can have the link for the four channel version you talk about dodgey?
can't seem to find it.
would you also be so kind as to let me know how they wire up to the nexnix electric screens?
am now about to place an order for the kit.

[paul1672]

forgot to ask,does it allow you to stop the screen at any point you like or does it just go straight to its end point?
also,could someone direct me to a 12v power supply that i'll need to use the circuit board with?
sorry,just not very electricaly minded.
many thanks in advance.
paul

[Dodgey]

OK :-)

The link for the 4 channel: http://www.quasarelectronics.com/3180.htm

Where does the screen stop? Its up to you. You can setup the remote control relay so that each press of the keyfob "latches" the relay into a position. So one press of the button and the screen lowers to it's stop, another press of the same button and the screen rises to it's stop.

OR

You could set the relays in the kit to act "momentarily" (just a simple jumer setting in the instructions) and then have one button on the remote as UP and one button on the remote as DOWN. Holding each one does what it says on the tin until you let go.

Dead easy.

I have mine set so one button does the trick, using the screen stops - which you can adjust easily so it always drops to the right height.

I will draw a wiring diagram/s today and upload it to my ftp site and link to it here. I know, I'm too good to you lot :-)

[paul1672]

could you be so kind as to post a link to the 12v power supply i'd need for the circuit board also?
wanna order everything i need in one go so as i can put it all together at once.
boy,i really am thick (lol)
cheers.

[Dodgey]

Just either go to the web site for the remote kit and search for power supplies. Just buy the cheapest one you can find - ot go to tandy or maplins or argos and buy the cheapest one. Don't worry about power ratings you simply want a 12 supply (you know, the black thing you plug in the wall)

Try this....

http://www.quasarelectronics.com/PSU345.htm

[paul1672]

your an absolute star.
many many thanks.
my father-in law is always taking the mick out of me as i'm no diy dave!!!
ever need anything done wrong,then i'm your man.
lol

[paul1672]

hi there dodgey.
i've received my pack and am looking forward to seeing your wiring diagram so i can wire it all up and see it in all its glory.
i have 4 wires (blue,brown,black and earth) coming from the screen,do i need to use them all?
many thanks in advance
paul

ps:i have tried to follow the advice given earlier on in the thread regarding wiring it up but there is nothing hapening whatsoever.
i had the black wire connected to the "no" terminal,the brown wire connected to the "nc" terminal and the blue wire connected to the "com" terminal and the 12v mains plug on the 12v prong.the yellow/green wire was not connected.no such luck this way.i then tried it exactly the same way but replaced the blue wire with the yellow/green one and still no luck.
i did follow the instructions regarding the remote learning but i had no joy whatsoever.
hopefully you can tell me what i'm doing wrong.
so sorry to be a pain.
paul

[Dodgey]

OK Paul , not a problem. I'll do what I can from the office, then confirm the colours tonight when I get home. You can work it all out dead easy.

Here we go. Firstly, you need to ascertain which wire is for up and which is for down.

Whatever you do, you are going to need to feed power to the circuit board so get yourself some three core (two will do actually - you can ditch the earth if you like) mains flex with a plug on the end.

UNPLUGGED (of course!) link the earth from the mains flex to the earth on the screen (if you are using an earth). Link the blue wire from the mains to the blue screen wire. When done, these will be permanent links.

Now, temporarily link the brown (live) from the mains to either the screen black or brown. Plug it in. If the screen comes down you have identified the down wire (the one you have temporarily hooked up to - black or brown). If the screen does nothing you have found the up wire. If this is the case, just check by swapping your live over to the other screen wire (unplugged again!) and then confirm it comes down.

Now you have identified black and brown as up/down, or the other way round. From now on I will refer to the black and brown as up and down wires (whichever way round).

Next - get your remote board initialised (learning) - it took a couple of attempts for mine, then bingo. You'll know when it is OK as the LEDs will work and there will be a clear clicking of the relays when you push the buttons on the remote. No point going any further until you get this working.

Once done.... Choose a channel/relay....

Mains Earth to earth (if used)
Mains Blue to screen blue
Mains brown to Common on relay
Up and down wires from screen to NC and ND terminals on same relay. Don't worry about which way round yet.

Finally, test the remote to see the screen works OK.

When all OK. Unplug the 12v power source to the remote board. If the screen starts dropping when you do this you have your up and down (black and brown) wires the wrong way round (NC and ND - swap them). This won't do any harm, but as you can imagine, if your 12v power supply fails your screen will drop :-) It's also nicer on the relays for them to spend the majority of their time switched off.

Let me knwo how it goes!

[Dodgey]

p.s. If that all seems a bit overwhealming drop me a pm. I'll give you my number and then you can call me after 6pm and I'll tell you the exact wiring colour scheme

[paul1672]

well,no such luck i'm afraid.
the board wont learn.
i established which wire was up and which was down though.

[Dodgey]

Keep at it. Call the supplier - they are a friendly bunch and may have advice. Mine did not learn first time (and I assembled mine) so I switched off and tried again and it worked. Keep me updated - we'll get there!

[paul1672]

do i just need to connect the 12v supply and nothin else to get it to learn?

[Dodgey]

you have to press a button on the board for it to learn. It's in the instructions... I'll check on their web site....

[Dodgey]

just checked the manual. You have to press the learn button on the circuit board the same time as pressing the larger button on the fob for about 1 second. Then wait 15 seconds. Then it's done.

[paul1672]

sorry,forgot to mention i have pressed the little learn button on the board also,what i actually meant was that i only connexcted the 12v supply up and none of the other wires.i then pressed the learn button then pressed the button on its own on the remote (within 15 seconds) and then waited 15 seconds and then tried it but every time nothing happens.

[paul1672]

well,there's definately power getting to the circuit board.
am gonna try giving the company a call.
if i still have no joy i'm gonna send it back and just get the proper remote.
never mind.
paul

[Dodgey]

don't give up, you are almost there! You do have to press both buttons at the same time....

[paul1672]

well,we finally managed to get it to work.
my wife nearly blew the house up but we got there in the end.
it was all because i hadn't connected the earth from the 12v mains plug (didn't realise i was meant to cut the plug and connect it manually).
only thing i need now is to work out how to get it to come down manually and stop instead of going back up when i let go of the button.
many many thanks for all your advice dodgey.
paul

[Dodgey]

Great news! It goes back up when you let go?? That means you have the relay set to "Momentary" on the circuit board. Look in the instructions and it tells you how to change it to "Latched" - I think it involved placing or removing a jumper on the board.

[paul1672]

i worked out how to just get it to go down with one press of the button.
i just assumed if i let go it would stop as i dont/cant have my screen go to its lowest point (with the 30cm drop)
is there a way where it can only come down/go up when i hold the button?
or do i need to change the level of drop on the screen?

[Dodgey]

You can do either but it is far more elegant to do it directly to the screen. Your nexnix screen came with a long black plastic allen key. Check the instructions. It shows you where to use the allen key. You can then adjust how far the screen drops by turning a screw with the key. Dead simple.

[paul1672]

right,final update,managed to get screen to right height after finally finding the alan key (son had managed to get his greasy hands on it) and all is up and running.
i am now a very happy chap.
many many thanks dodgey.
i only hope all this will also help other people like me.
paul

[Dodgey]

Great! Now don't forget, you can add 3 more devices to your relay board :-)

Adding a table lamp for example is a piece of cake. Just pass the live through one of the relays (live from mains to common relay terminal) Live from lamp to NC. Voila! you have remote controlled lamps