The Two Towers - What Do You Think About the DVD Quality

[Julia]

Does anyone else think that the DVD quality of the extended edition of The Two Towers is not as good as the quality of The Fellowship of the Ring DVD?

I'm speaking just about the image quality.

It seems to me that the image is clearer and sharper in the Fellowship extended edition DVD ...


Thanks,

Julia

[CrackDown]

no

[KraGorn]

I don't see any difference per se, kind of hard to compare I think, certainly on something like a Z2 which, good though it is, isn't exactly the pinnacle of pj pq. :grin:

[FoxyMulder]

I think picture quality isn't as good and i think sound quality is nowhere near as good as the Fellowship was, i believe someone said New Line overcooked the audio on Fellowship and pulled right back for The Two Towers, well give me overcooked to undercooked any day of the week.

i can't understand why everyone is giving this dvd top marks, its good its very good but it's not as good as Fellowship was.

[Family Guy]

I haven't got it yet but will be able to comment on December 26th...:grin:

[Marv]

I watched my two towers dvd today and thought the audio was missing something.

[paulus]

Originally posted by Marv
I watched my two towers dvd today and thought the audio was missing something.

I thought so too but I put it down to watching it in DTS. I'll have to see what the DD 5.1 version sounds like.

[sonny]

What region are we talking about here?
I have the R1 and thought it was fine.

[KraGorn]

Both R1s .. I have to agree with THX (IIRC) who posted the review some weeks ago, unlike the FoTR, TTT's DTS soundtrack is barely different from the Dolby, at least on my low-end Marantz 4300/Eltax speakers.

[docsmith2k1]

Little doubt in my mind that the R1 I have sound and looks spectacular. I currently use it and Blade 2 R2 as my reference DVDs

[Mark Haywood]

Originally posted by paulus
I thought so too but I put it down to watching it in DTS. I'll have to see what the DD 5.1 version sounds like.

:grin: My kinda guy ;)

Army Bloke, shall we let him in our new club?

Sigs

[KraGorn]

Actually, during my second viewing I forgot to select DTS and listened to the DD track for half an hour or so before realising something was different .. the little 'Dolby' light on my Marantz was lit instead of the DTS one. ;)

I spent some minutes toggling back and forth, sadly of course there's a second or so silence between changes so A/B comparison isn't 100% accurate, but I couldn't really detect any difference. Maybe my kit is too low-end for it to show. :confused:

[Nike]

Prior to watching ROTK, I watched both EEs & thought there was a small improvement in picture quality going from FOTR to TTT.
(Both R1 on Pio 757 into Panny PW4)

Watched both films with Dolby Digital sound - fantastic.

[Julia]

Many thanks for your replies.

I've got Region 2 Two Towers bought from dvd.co.uk at the bargain price of £17.99. I've noticed that the version I have has an IRL stamp on it (maybe that means it has ben made for Ireland?).

Maybe if I try a UK version it will be different?

I use the DVI output of a home made HTPC or of a Bravo D1 DVD player and a AE300 projector.

I just wonder if maybe I should sell my IRL version of the Two Towers and buy a UK one?

Has anyone made a comparison between the IRL version and UK version?

Thanks,

Julia

[FoxyMulder]

It'll be the exact same one as the UK edition, the irish stamp just signifies its intended for Ireland.

I have the region 1 and i honestly don't think the picture and in particular the sound are as good as the first film.

[Julia]

Thanks FoxyMulder.

We really love this film and it's such a pity it's not as good quality as the first one ;(.

So it seems that it would make no difference to sell my IRL and buy another version.

Thanks,

Julia

[sweetmate]

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
I think picture quality isn't as good and i think sound quality is nowhere near as good as the Fellowship was, i believe someone said New Line overcooked the audio on Fellowship and pulled right back for The Two Towers, well give me overcooked to undercooked any day of the week.

i can't understand why everyone is giving this dvd top marks, its good its very good but it's not as good as Fellowship was.

Picture looks great to me, and the sound was fantastic. I think the dts soundtracks on each match beautifully and arent undercooked, but the DD on FOTR sounds overcooked. Too much bombast. I like my steak cooked to perfection. ;)

[FoxyMulder]

Don't get me wrong picture is great and sound is very good but i think FOTR had better sound i like my sound overcooked.

[talizker]

Hey:)

I actually thought it was the best looking DVD i've seen! [R1 on a 7' Sanyo Z1].

[PaulBoy]

FoxyMulder got it spot on IMO Don't get me wrong picture is great and sound is very good but i think FOTR had better sound i like my sound overcooked
The sound/picture on TTT isn't bad it just isnt as good as FOTR
I believe FOTR was something special & will take a lot of beating in the sound/picture stakes - especially on the sound front were there were so many scenes which were just made for Home Cinema e.g. the "pulse" in the first battle scene - how many of us use that scene to show off our systems ?
TTT is a great film - maybe even better than FOTR ? - but it is the film as a whole that impresses me - I cant think of one particular scene that I would use to show off my system (?) maybe that's the way it should be with the film being bigger than the quality of the presentation
Another positive for TTT is IMO they managed to give us a 4 disc set that is even better than FOTR in terms of the extras
I for one cant wait for ROTK on DVD - should be AWESOME!
Paul ;)

[Kevo]

Agree on the DTS sound on TTT EE, It's just so lacklustre compared to FOTR EE. Definatley NOT demo material.

[Donnacha]

Have to agree, thought FOTR was better A/V wise

[Smurfin]

I guess you all disagree with my review then;)

I don't understand how anyone can say the audio and video on FOTR is superior to TTT. Reference quality both of them.

Agree on the DTS sound on TTT EE, It's just so lacklustre compared to FOTR EE. Definatley NOT demo material.


:confused: Definately NOT demo material? Completely disagree with you there, it's a sublime sound mix.

[Nike]

No, I agree; I thought TTT was marginally better video-wise though. It's not a colourful as FOTR - this is intentional. Some shots are practically monochrome on TTT. In terms of sharpness & detail, I don't know what people are seeing that would make them say FOTR is 'better'.

Also agree re the sound mix. Not so 'in yer face' far more subtle use of effects, etc.

[cybersoga]

I think TTT (R2 extended version) from a resolution point of view is exceptional, the picture has detail as fine as i've ever seen on a standard definition dvd. The styleised colours are clearly intentional as that was how it looked in the cinema. I have no complaints with the sound.

[PaulBoy]

Smurfin - you said Definately NOT demo material? Completely disagree with you there, it's a sublime sound mix so what would you suggest as a particular scene to use as a demo ? I find it hard to pick such a scene(s) from TTT but actually think TTT is a better film (?)
Paul ;)

[Smurfin]

Originally posted by PaulBoy
Smurfin - you said so what would you suggest as a particular scene to use as a demo ?
Paul ;)

Read this (http://www.totaldvd.net/cgi-bin/dvdreviews.php?reviewid=10110)

[Mark Haywood]

Originally posted by Smurfin
Read this (http://www.totaldvd.net/cgi-bin/dvdreviews.php?reviewid=10110)

Here here ;) Spot on review - very professional - and accurate.

[FoxyMulder]

Two Towers has great sound but just didnt do as much for me as Fellowship did, i dunno about anyone else but in a home environment i love discrete surround effects constantly doing things around my head some would say overcooked, In this regard Fellowship had the better sound mix.

A comparison would be Star Wars Phantom Menace and Star Wars Attack of The Clones, for me Phantom Menace had the better sound mix, Clones constantly had everything going on in the rear speakers but Phantom had more defined split surround moments that stay in the memory and were more enjoyable to listen to, i feel the same way about Fellowship and Two Towers.

I love huge overblown sound mixes, my favourite is the DTS version of The Haunting.

So in summing it all up, all of the above films have great sound and very good picture quality but i prefer Fellowships DTS track and i also thought Fellowship the better film.

[PaulBoy]

Smurfin ... I have revisited your excellent review as you suggested and was pleased to read the following in respect of the sound on TTT ...
But for all the “demo” moments of ground-shaking bass and sweeping, dynamic effects, perhaps the most impressive element of this soundtrack is the subtle layering, for always there are new sounds to hear, many of which will likely go un-noticed as you’ll be swept up in the story. This is no bad thing, however, as many of the effects are really there to enhance the immersiveness and don’t draw your attention to them
... something along the lines of what I was "trying" to say I believe? ...
TTT audio-wise (& possibly video-wise - I doubt I can fully appreciate the video on a 32" CRT) is not as "in yer face" as FOTR nor does it IMO use the DTS-ES as well as FOTR ... FOTR is still No1 DVD for me with TTT a close second ... Paul ;)

[StooMonster]

Originally posted by Julia
I'm speaking just about the image quality.

It seems to me that the image is clearer and sharper in the Fellowship extended edition DVD ...
Perhaps there is less Edge Enhancement (http://www.videophile.info/Guide_EE/Page_01.htm) on the R1 tTT than there is on tFotR?

The infamous Bjoern Roy review of The Fellowship Of The Ring (http://www.videophile.info/Review/FOTR/FOTR_01.htm).

StooMonster

[Julia]

StooMonster, thanks for this cool review!:).
He makes a very convincing point with his examples.
Look forward to his TTT review
Julia

[FoxyMulder]

Bear in mind Bjoern is using state of the art equipment and ur average viewer with their 28inch and 32 inch widescreen televisions will NOT see edge enhancement.

I find most reviewers who bring up edge enhancement have very large screens and for ur average viewer its never ever noticed.

[cybersoga]

Average standard definition crt televisions can't display the full resolution that's on a dvd, granted. But who says we're average, we're enthusiasts! There's quite a few people using high definition screens such as plasmas and projectors. It doesn't have to be really large to appreciate a good picture, even those watching dvd's on computer screens can see edge enhancement etc.

[FoxyMulder]

ur Average GOOD 28 or 32 inch television CAN display the full resolution offered by DVD, u still won't notice edge enhancement on those sizes of TV, its the large displays and projection systems where u begin to notice defects, bottom line is DVD is like a photo, blow it up too big and ur notice defects.

[cybersoga]

Have you ever seen DVD resolution test patterns on an average TV (i'm talking about resolution in the anologue sense of being able to display alternate black & white lines as fine as possible)? Most of the ones i've seen blur the lines much before the limit of dvd's resolution is reached. Try connecting a computer to a television to see what I mean.

[FoxyMulder]

Merry Xmas lets not argue (( id like a state of the art projection system for xmas and a 6.1 Amp and ohhhh one of those subwoofers where i can feeeel the bass and not just hear it ))

[cybersoga]

My point is that I want the dvd's I buy to look good even on the TV's of tomorrow - flat panels with HD resolution will be "the average tv" eventually, and I care about picture quality no matter what the size of the screen. Merry Xmas mate, I hope santa delivers!

[rebel_scum]

Nowt wrong with my R3 Hong Kong version. Came with the same mighty packaging as the R1 and the sound/image quality is the same if not better, than the R1 of Fellowship that I have.

[rags]

I actually prefer the DD mix on TTT EE over the DTS mix. I very rarely prefer DD over DTS but suprisingly this is one of the exceptions. I found the steering to be better, sharper effects and the bass was definately a notch above - not only louder but tighter with much more impact.

Obviously going nuts. :)

[buns]

missed this thread..... when discussing with a friend, we concluded to being suspicious of the black levels of the R2 release (havent seen any others).

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[cybersoga]

Nowt wrong with the black levels AFAICS (as far as I can see!)

[buns]

the black bars seem at higher IRE, we have (without really takgin time to measure) guessed that it has maybe gotten some ntsc black level on it..... no big deal i guess, given few are going to be calibrated for both formats, i guess it woud be masked to most people.

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[StooMonster]

Originally posted by cybersoga
Have you ever seen DVD resolution test patterns on an average TV (i'm talking about resolution in the anologue sense of being able to display alternate black & white lines as fine as possible)? Most of the ones i've seen blur the lines much before the limit of dvd's resolution is reached. Try connecting a computer to a television to see what I mean.
Definately, what FoxyMulder is saying is that he doesn't have sufficient quality of kit to tell which version has highest picture quality. ;)

I can see Edge Enhancement as clear as day on both my 50" plasma screen and my 17" LCD television; can even see Sky digital's EE on the 17" if I look closely. Can also see it with DVD playback on laptop or desktop's CRT. All these displays are progressive, perhaps it's less noticeable on interlaced displays?

EE is usually applied (sometimes heavily) to NTSC DVDs because of the lower vertical resolution; it can be a factor in a purchase decision for me.

Buns: I have my plasma ISF Calibrated for all inputs/formats and it looks fine to me; easy way to check IRE of horizontal black bars is switch your screen into 4:3 format and see if they are at the same intensity as the screen's pillar box vertical bars. :)

StooMonster

[FoxyMulder]

No what i'm saying is i KNOW my television can resolve the full PAL bandwith of 560+ lines and i think some people throw edge enhancement up far too often, same thing happens on the american forum sites, for ur average person edge enhancement isnt a major concern, bigger the screen more concerned u will be, don't presume my television can't resolve great detail and put words in my mouth... thks

[buns]

Originally posted by StooMonster
Buns: I have my plasma ISF Calibrated for all inputs/formats and it looks fine to me; easy way to check IRE of horizontal black bars is switch your screen into 4:3 format and see if they are at the same intensity as the screen's pillar box vertical bars. :)

StooMonster

thats what im saying.... it looks high..... actually it measures high :grin: Of course my detector is inaccurate down here, but still looks a tag more grey than it should be. Now worries if no one else agrees!

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[StooMonster]

Julia asked about image quality in R1 tFotR versus tTT, specifically...

Originally posted by Julia
It seems to me that the image is clearer and sharper in the Fellowship extended edition DVD ...
I suggested that the reason tTT is not as "sharp" is that it has less Edge Enhancement than R1 tFotR, on which there is notoriously a great deal.

Originally posted by StooMonster
Perhaps there is less Edge Enhancement on the R1 tTT than there is on tFotR?
The only person making any kind of presumption here is FoxyMulder, how do you know that Julia's equipment does not show edge enhancement?

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
[B]Bear in mind Bjoern is using state of the art equipment ...
I find most reviewers who bring up edge enhancement have very large screens and for ur average viewer its never ever noticed.
Bjoern Roy is just screen dumping from PC output, hardly state of the art equipment. If you read my post above, you would've seen the part where I said I can see EE on my 17" (seventeen inch) LCD television, also on my laptop's 15" (fifteen inch) screen neither of which I would describe as "large screens".

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
No what i'm saying is i KNOW my television can resolve the full PAL bandwith of 560+ lines ...
and ur average viewer with their 28inch and 32 inch widescreen televisions will NOT see edge enhancement ...
for ur average person edge enhancement isnt a major concern, bigger the screen more concerned u will be,
Your "average person" doesn't buy region 1 DVDs for use on their 28" widescreen television.

However, to see if you were right and it's not so visible on the kind of display you describe, I got out R1 "Terminator 2: Ultimate Edition" and went to the eight-year-old 28" Sony CRT widescreen and six-year-old Marantz DVD player in StooMonster Jnr's playroom and fired up the disk -- also bearing in mind that I know that this screen resolves the entire PAL bandwidth, I know because in the past I've counted the rasters and the pixels. :rolleyes:

Bjoern Roy demonstrates R1 "Terminator 2: Ultimate Edition" too, and no wonder! I chose "Theatrical version" and randomly skipped to scene 10 where a police car pulls up, check out the police logo because it's got a halo, skipped to scene 12 and Sarah Conner is looking at a monitor on the left hand side of the screen that has a bigger halo than the Arch Angel Gabriel.

Didn't bother checking anymore because randomly skipping and viewing EE was everywhere, as Bjoern Roys says "Another striking example of how a transfer should not look like". If I took digital photos of the 28" CRT interlaced 50Hz television they would look not dissimilar to the T2:UE screenshots on Bjoern pages.

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
and i think some people throw edge enhancement up far too often, same thing happens on the american forum sites ...
don't presume my television can't resolve great detail and put words in my mouth... thks
Well there's either something wrong with your eyes, or your television; have you considered that this may be why so many people complain about EE on R1 discs both in reviews and on American forums sites but you don't see it?

Did put as ;) to be friendly and show I was joshing last time.

StooMonster
EDIT: added 28" test

[StooMonster]

Originally posted by buns
thats what im saying.... it looks high..... actually it measures high :grin: Of course my detector is inaccurate down here, but still looks a tag more grey than it should be. Now worries if no one else agrees!

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Where did you get the detector from?

StooMonster (eyes new bit of kit)

[FoxyMulder]

Perhaps edge enhancement doesnt bother me the way it bothers u as u probably are the type who pops a disc in and LOOKS for it, anyone who looks for faults will find them, hey wheres my smiley face i musta misplaced it oh well never mind, ur up on a pedestal above us mere mortals and there u can stay.

[buns]

detector is a colorfacts detector, actually it is a tristimulus detector primarily for measuring RGB to calibrate greyscale, but it does do measurements like this. However, once you factor in the cost of the software its not cheap. If you just want to measure light output you can buy stadalone detectors (which will be more accurate at measuring low light levels i believe, but not do the RGB thing)

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[cybersoga]

The only way to know for sure if your display can resolve detail is to use a test pattern. If you care about picture quality (this is for anyone reading this), do yourself a favour and get hold of Avia Video Essensials. Try the widescreen enhanced resolution test pattern and look at the circle in the bottom right hand corner. It should look like the screenshot below if your display is resolving all the horizontal detail that's on NTSC dvd's, if your TV is less than perfect the lines may look very feint or the circle will look like it's full of grey with no distinct lines.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cybersoga/misc/675.gif

Digital Video Essensials has similar resolution test patterns.

[StooMonster]

Originally posted by buns
detector is a colorfacts detector, actually it is a tristimulus detector primarily for measuring RGB to calibrate greyscale, but it does do measurements like this. However, once you factor in the cost of the software its not cheap. If you just want to measure light output you can buy stadalone detectors (which will be more accurate at measuring low light levels i believe, but not do the RGB thing)

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Ooough, I'd like to greyscale calibrate all my displays on the cheap including my desktop's Sony reference CRT monitor; but can't afford an ISF Calibrator person like Gordon to spend days on my stuff. :)

Are they expensive? Any helpful URLs?

StooMonster

[StooMonster]

Foxy, did I complain about EE? Nope. Just suggested there may be less on one R1 disc than another. :)

For anyone who wonders what this Edge Enhancement is, and hasn't linked to Bjoern Roy's site.

Here's Gangs Of New York Region1 running on a PC:

http://www.jetsetwilly.com/images/gony.jpg

Can you spot the halo around the faces and hat?

http://www.jetsetwilly.com/images/gony-ee.jpg

This is not as bad as "Terminator 2: Ultimate Edition" discussed above, but you can still see it here (and on my Sony 28" CRT television :clown:).

StooMonster

[buns]

Originally posted by StooMonster
Ooough, I'd like to greyscale calibrate all my displays on the cheap including my desktop's Sony reference CRT monitor; but can't afford an ISF Calibrator person like Gordon to spend days on my stuff. :)

Are they expensive? Any helpful URLs?

StooMonster

Unfortunately it would prove cheaper to get Gordon to calibrate a few displays for you than to buy the hardware yourself. Colorfacts, for instance, would cost you easily £1500. You could get something like SMART III which is a cheaper thing which needs alot more manual interaction but only costing £200 odds. Alternatively, you could hire them for a somewhat shorter term (like a month) at much decreased cost

try www.milori.com

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[StooMonster]

:smashin: Buns

Hrm... well Gordon did my plasma, but got so many other displays. ;) Hiring sounds like a top plan. :)

Thanks for the links and info, it's on my fantasy project list so I may get round to it within the next decade. :clown:

Edit: with the US Dollar at 1.8+ to Pound Sterling the likes of SMART III could be even cheaper and more like £150; although designed for PJs. :( I've got CRT monitors and LCD screens.

StooMonster

[buns]

well you can hire Colorfacts for a month at $300...... if you can do all your displays in that time (note there is a bit of a learning curve!) then that is a great idea. Gary Lightfoot has seen the 2 setups and could tell you a bit more about smartIII but I gather that colorfacts is alot easier to use (measurement is pretty much automated).

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