Poll: Should Arcam software and firmware be user or dealer upgradable?

[sticker]

Hi,
Bearing in mind the recent discussion regarding FMJ software, I think it would be a good idea to find out the depth of feeling as to whether users of Arcam equipment believe that software and firmware should be a task performed by the end user or dealer.

Thanks for your input
John

[kaspj]

Well done Sticker. Let's hope Arcam are listening to their customers!

JP.

[Tracey]

I think we should have a choice of either doing it oursleves or getting a dealer to do it. I don't have a car at the moment so getting to my dealer is a pain, plus I would rather not bother than have to disconnect my AV8 then reconnect everything, it's giving me nightmares just thinking about it!

Probably not likely to happen but what would be good is if the dealer you buy from could come round to your home to upgrade for you, I know some would do that anyway but they might get a bit fed up after a few years if you haven't bought anything from them for a while.

[Matt Horne]

I am more than happy to do it myself.. but the dealers should still be there for those not confident to DIY it.

Maybe the dealers complained to Arcam?

Matt

[sticker]

35 votes so far, a ratio of 4 :1:1 in favour of complete user upgrades. Seems to be a fairly consistant ratio to date.

If you haven't voted yet please do so as I think this is a very important that we get a wide as view as posible from all Arcam owners, particulary those who own the AV8 which probably is the most problematic with shipping/cabling.

Regards
John

[kevshed]

This kit is simply too big and a pain to take out of an installation for dealer upgrades.... surely as registered users we should be able to choose what ever solution we feel confident in. Perhaps Arcam could do a little more work on the update process to reduce the risk of corrupting the firmwares should there be an interuption.

Also, as mentioned by many - a lot of us do not have a dealer 'round the corner', therefore a large amount of effort needs to go into it...

+ if the mrs see's me ripping it out, i'd have a hard time convincing here that im not off to p/x it for something a couple of grand dearer :)

I'd be interested in seeing a poll of owners occupations - wager a lot of technical people own this kit...

Kev

[dwette]

I imagine similar issues apply to the forthcoming AVR300, which I'll get as a replacement for my AVR200. So I vote yes on both counts.

I've run firmware flashers on my laptop hardware numerous times. Surely it can't me more difficult than that?!?!?

On the other hand, I can see how it might introduce support issues for Arcam. Reasonable intelligence and common sense is not a prerequisite for purchasing Arcam -- I can foresee certain users failing to follow simple instructions and end up rendering their unit inoperable.

Nevertheless, I think some mechanism should be implemented allowing users to perform upgrades without dismantling their gear.

Dean

[kaspj]

Still no response to customer views by Arcam:(

I think most owners recognise software installation by the user is performed at the owners risk, and accept any return to factory cost must be borne by the customer for any botched attempts.

However, in truth many dealers are no more qualified to install software than the owner. I've installed both DVD and AV8 software. It was easy to do, as it should be, with apparently little margin for error. Why the change of policy???

JP.

[sticker]

I saw Andrew Dutton's reply on another thread that he wasn't in a position to comment, so really we need JD to comment.

John if you read this it would be nice to know Arcam's position on this and the rationale of only letting dealers perform the upgrade.

From a personal point of view I'm particulary not impressed if this is dealer only for the AV8. The upheaval in taking the AV8 to the dealer and also the fact that my household insurance does not cover goods in transit mean that I won't be upgrading the AV8, its not worth the risk of damaging £3,000 of equipment in transit or having it stolen. Obviously if I don't upgrade the software in the AV8 I am not taking advantage of one of the reasons that I bought it, namely the upgradability. :(

Regards
John

[General Skanky]

It'd be something to consider about future Arcam purchases if I 'had' to take it to them just for an update!

I know I'd look closer at alternatives.

Why can companies like Tag and Meridian simply download updates to you and yet Arcam can't/won't??????:confused:

[John Dawson]

Thank you folks for all your feed back on the process of updating the software in Arcam’s field upgradeable products.

As you have observed, it is now Arcam’s standard policy to have dealers upgrade the software in our DVD players, using our official drive firmware and player software discs. This decision was not taken lightly but after considerable discussion with some of our trade partners. Many Arcam dealers strongly prefer to undertake this task themselves on behalf of their customers and we received criticism from some of these dealers when we supplied the discs directly. Such dealers wish to retain a close personal relationship with their customers and one must remember too that the product warranty is the dealer’s responsibility in law. We were also heavily criticised by several of our international distributors and their dealers on some of the occasions when we tried to be helpful and dealt with an overseas end user directly. Several of the recipients (for whom English is not their first language) got muddled, corrupted the player and then expected the distributor to sort it out!

As to the AV8 code updates – these are carried out via the serial port on the back of the unit and a laptop computer. For most customers we believe the dealer should be doing this, probably with a home visit, not least because we expect the dealer initially to install and set up such a system as part of the deal, and to ensure it performs and continues to perform at its best in the customer’s system. All AV8 dealers have at least one staff member who has had training on the AV8 and who should be competent to support the product.

I would further comment that the AV8 has been essentially bug free, so the couple of upgrades released so far are just that, rather than being necessary for serious bug fixes. These software upgrades are therefore not primarily issues of warranty support but more directed at keeping an expensive product “on the money” as customer feedback is received and new features are developed. We have so far not charged for the content of such upgrades and do not expect dealers to either, although whether they charge you for their time and travel expenses when paying you a visit is of course a matter for negotiation between you and your dealer.

I hope you can all therefore see that, in the overall scheme of things, it is vitally important for Arcam’s long-term business relationships with its dealers to keep them informed when we are supporting end users. It is the dealer’s job to provide front line support and, in our experience, the majority of queries can best be answered on the spot by your Arcam dealer. Only those more technical or unusual questions, which your dealer is unable to answer, should be referred to Arcam Support, with a copy sent to the dealer in question. To reiterate – it is essential that your dealer is kept in the loop, not least because he or she is contractually obliged under UK law to provide warranty support.

Having said all that, there are cases where the quickest solution for all of us is for Arcam Support to deal directly with the end user so, if the dealer who supplied the product asks us to send a software update directly to an end user, then we will be happy to oblige.

In general we will need to know that you have already discussed this matter with your dealer (so we will need the name of the person you spoke to in the dealership) and we reserve the right to take up your case with the dealer concerned. This is in the interests of good relations all round and the easier resolution of problems in the future. You also need to be fully aware of the small but finite risk involved in performing a software upgrade yourself and the possible consequences should it fail.

The above is only applicable to residents of the UK and Northern Ireland, where Arcam itself is the local distributor. Except in truly exceptional cases, overseas customers will always be asked to get upgrades from their local dealer and / or distributor. If the distributor does not have such material to hand we will of course be happy to take this up on your behalf.

In conclusion it is not our intention to be disruptive to the process of keeping our high performance products up to date and at the peak of their performance. But we do need to have ground rules to keep everyone from duplicating effort.


Sincerely,

John Dawson (Arcam)

[jont]

John

Thank you for your reply ... for one I acknowledge the points that you raise, i would however like to see a more concerted effort by the dealers (as some have raised here) for your products, especially the premium FMJ range, making more of an effort to contact their Arcam customers on a pro-active basis when software upgrades are made available ... I hope with the discussions you said you have had that this starts to happen, I guess you'll hear on this forum pretty quickly if it doesn't !!

rgds

Jon

[robocop]

Hi John

Thank you for the comprehensive reply. I know I for one appreciate your feedback on this issue, particulary as it’s “dragged” on a bit with no official word.

To clarify one point then, if John Smith from A N Other dealer phones up and asks for the latest software release to be sent to me, as a resident of the U.K. etc, you (Arcam) will send the update disc direct to me?

Please can you confirm, if this is correct?

[General Skanky]

I bought my DV27 from a forum member here. How would I go about an update if required? Personally I don't really want to go to a dealer for something like that, especially as I didn't buy it from them.

If I then do the DVD-A upgrade, does it have to go through a dealer or direct to you? As it'd have all current updates implemented then I'd assume, if in the future another is needed, how would I go about it if i had sent it to you myself?

Thanks.

[John Dawson]

Kevin - I believe your assumption is correct - it would be nice if it were your friendly local dealer but it doesn't have to be.

Guy - if you have a local dealer (and you do in Ipswich!) please approach him first for a SW upgrade disc. You never know - he might lend it to you and it could be the start of a beautiful relationship for everyone :-)

As to a full hardware upgrade that can be done through a local dealer or direct with us as you see fit.

HTH.

John Dawson (Arcam)

[robocop]

John, that’s good news.
I now just have to follow correct business etiquette and contact my dealer first, thus keeping everyone happy :grin:

ps
Does this mean that once the software upgrade has been sanctioned by my dealer, you will allow it to be emailed as previously, or is this asking for too much?:rotfl:

[General Skanky]

Thank you.

[KBDVD]

Hi All,

Quote by John Dawson:

"If the dealer who supplied the product asks us to send a software update directly to an end user, then we will be happy to oblige."

Reality:

I rang Audio-T in Swindon this morning, and requested that they contact Arcam on my behalf and request that the latest software, (v4.18.0) be sent to me.

(This is the dealer from whom I purchased my DV27 last month and they are located 80 miles from my home.)

They later returned my call and told me that they had rung Arcam but had been informed that software can only be supplied to dealers.

Whats going on here?

John, assuming that you intend to stand by your quoted intention above, can I respectfully request that you inform your customer support team of this directive as this is now getting quite frustrating! :mad:

Best Regards,
KBDVD.

[John Dawson]

Hi KBDVD,

I checked up on this and it was nothing more than a timing issue - the dealer called us a little while before the full support team was briefed on the policy.

As it turns out one of our team spotted this internally and put your disc in the post last night in any case. It would already be with you this morning except that the bad weather meant our post wasn't collected yesterday - hopefully it will go today!

Sincerely,

John Dawson (Arcam)

[KBDVD]

Thanks for looking into this John, :smashin:

Very much appreciated!

ps: A quick question:

Do you include the latest firmware release with the software as a "matter of course"? The reason that I ask is that my dealer either didn't have or couldn't find, the latest firmware cd when I bought my DV27, he only had the software cd. So my software is currently version 4.12 and my firmware is still only LT75.

Best Regards,
KBDVD.

[jmack]

hi john

i bought mine off the forums. so i dont have a dealer , my local shop is audio-excellance and i would prefer not to go there as there attiude stinks, and they have never been helpfull in the past.

can a disk be sent to me?

[The Beekeeper]

I have some sympathy with Arcams approach here. Although I am reasonably competent upgrading software on my kit (most has this capability), this is not true of most people who buy this equipment. In fact when I think back to all the times I first ‘flashed’ the software on a new piece of kit, I was always nervous.

A dealer is a vital link here and it is essential for the development of a brand. As well as some Arcam kit I own a substantial quantity of Tag equipment bought through a local dealer. This dealer ‘parted company’ with Tag some time ago and I was left high and dry. It was only luck that I didn’t need much dealer help at that time. Tag pointed me in the direction of another ‘local’ dealer only 5 hr round trip away. They have now also ‘ceased’ ‘positive’ dealing with Tag along with many others last year, [In fact most of the complete list of ‘premium’ dealers I email were ‘less than positive’].

I now feel left really high and dry with no back from dealers which I feel is a vital part of the equation. Yes I can easily download the latest software and flash stuff but I would trade that any day for dealer support. The dealer NEEDS to be involved, yes it might involve a small amount of additional work for us ‘more knowledgeable users’ but on the whole I feel it by far the best solution. With no dealer support, even for simple software upgrades, I have not ‘progressed my dealings with the Tag brand at all. If I had a local dealer supporting the brand I am sure I would have upgraded more than just bug fix software. Arcams approach I feel is a wise one, both from their stand point, their support from dealers (Arcam have an excellent network, Tag, well you all know that story!!). The customers as a whole also benefit I feel. It might not suit everyone but I feel it is the best compromise available.

[Bish]

I contacted my local dealer B&B HiFi in Bracknell at 2.30pm yesterday (Friday), 8.50am this morning (Saturday) i received my software update disc direct from Arcam and so far i think my bugs are fixed......

So, thanks B&B HiFi and thanks Arcam.....see, they do look after and value their customers.

Bish

[KBDVD]

Hi John,

This is turning into a bit of a saga I'm afraid.

The latest software disc (4.18) was received on Saturday morning as promised, thanks very much for this.

However..............

I noticed a small scratch extending across the inner part of the disc towards the centre spindle hole. One tentative light rub with a finger tip later, (and I do mean light!) and a whole section of the surface had ceased to exist and turned into loads of tiny bits of silver glitter!

I wasn't initially too bothered as I thought that this was just the label that was damaged, but this soon turned to dismay when I turned the disc over and realised that the rear of the silver labeling is actually the reflective surface that carries the data!

I've never actually burned CD's / DVD's myself and as such, in my ignorance, I have always assumed until now that the data layer of any disc is safely sandwiched between the outer plastic layers, but I have now discovered otherwise!

Needless to say, I shall not attempt to use this disc given the nature of the material it contains. If this were simply music or images I'd give it a go, but it would probably prove fatal for my DV27 in this instance.

Therefore John, at the risk of being a proverbial pain in the ar#e, could you please arrange for a further copy of this disc to be sent to me? (As I don't want to bother my dealer AGAIN!) From the literature accompanying the disc I have also confirmed that I do need to request the separate LT76 FIRMWARE disc too, (as I'm currently still using LT75.)

I'm more than happy to return the faulty disc to you if you would like to have a look at it, I get the impression that more of the coating will readily part company from the disc with little persuasion, so this must be some kind of bonding issue.

Please let me have a return address if you'd like me to return it.

I've attached the following picture to illustrate the problem.

Best Regards,
KBDVD.

[Cool-hand]

Originally posted by KBDVD
Hi John,

This is turning into a bit of a saga I'm afraid.

KBDVD you are turning into right royal pain in the ar#e!!!!:mad:

Don't blame you for not trying the disk though. That really really stinks:thumbsdow

CH

[KBDVD]

John Dawson?

(Sorry Cool! ;) )

Best Regards,
KBDVD.

[KBDVD]

John?

[John Dawson]

AFAIK a replacement disc has been sent - I will check tomorrow.

John Dawson (Arcam)

[KBDVD]

Hi John,

The replacement software disc came today and is perfect, thank you very much for following this up for me. :smashin:

Still no LT76 firmware disc included however. :( Do I need to request this through Audio-T as a seperate item in order to receive it?

Best Regards,
KBDVD.

[Crustyloafer]

Being an Arcam dealer, I feel obliged to vote for the dealer doing any upgrades. I appreciate that it is a simple process which is very hard to screw up if you have at least one functionig brain cell. However there are still people in this country who can still mess it up, and who do they come running to when it's gone wrong? If the dealer applies all the upgrades then if something does go wrong the consumer is still covered. It's the same story with banana plugs, just to stop the odd one or two people who feel inclined to stick them into mains sockets. These people should be given Darwin Awards.

Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/)