Euro 1080 to be encryped!!!

[rigman]

Just got the latest edition of What satellite and it says that Euro1080 will be encrypted on both channels and that if you want to view there will be a one off cost of £70.

Bad news as all the articles I have read before now have said it will be free to air on one of the channels specifically directed at the home market.

They have a limited market as it is and this will not do them any favours as far as take up goes.

They also say that the receivers will be available before the end of the year but I have not seen anywhere advertising them on pre order.

There is an article on setting it up on your PC for those that are interested.

Darren

[Chris Muriel]

I wonder when/why they changed their stance.
I think we should all email them and point out how they will be stymying their intended market - biting off the hand that feeds them.

Chris Muriel

[bayards]

...yes rushed out to get the latest edition - useful article and so have ordered the Pinnacle PC sat card (with CI) in case.

However their website at Euro1080 still states it will be FTA - just for the reason that it will encourage take up - could be Wotsat got it wrong and meant the other channel (Events) is encrypted.

H

[PaulB]

This is from the Euro 1080 website (faq page)
Edit - link to faq here http://www.euro1080.tv/faqs.htm ;

Question: “How can you protect the content of the Right Holders and how do you avoid illegal copying”

Answer: “We produce and distribute content in superior technical quality and realize the artistic and commercial value of the productions we have. Protection of this content against piracy or other illegal use is of great importance to us – without it we do not have a business case. Encryption, secure key management and distribution, physical protection of servers, use of smart cards for authentication and verification, and other security measures are, and all on a high professional level form part of our operation”

Not entirely clear what this actually refers to, sounds more like physical protection of the source material but could aslo encompass broadcast encryption perhaps? Maybe we are looking at a mix of FTA and encrypted stuff?

Paul

[PaulB]

Aha, check this bit out - refers to having a main channel and another exclusive event channel which presumably could be encrypted!

Question: “Why do you think that consumers are willing to buy expensive tickets for these events, which you can also see on TV now”
Answer: “First of all, the events we will show will only partly be available on the regular TV stations. Examples are the Portugal 2004 soccer games. Other events, such major live rock concerts, big classic events, will NOT be on regular TV, nor on our Main Channel, so for these premium events are exclusive for the Event Channel. Furthermore, we have experienced that this type of environment that we can offer, large screen, perfect surround sound and sharing the event with hundreds of others, is perceived to be enormously attractive.”

Question: “Is the Main Channel going to show the same content as Event Channel”
Answer: “There will be events that are going to be shown on both Channels, but the Event Channel will have premium content that will be exclusive for that channel”

Edit - yep, near the bottom of the faq it states that the main channel will be FTA. This most likely means that the exclusive event channel won't. Re-reading the faq, I think the Event Channel may not be readily available to home-users - anyone else read it like that?

Edit 2 - and to pile on yet more agravation, it looks like the STB's don't have RGB output, only component and S-Video! HTPC may be the only option for CRT'er's and some of the digital gang - transcoders should work though but we'll have to see!

Paul

[PaulB]

Just found this confirmation at http://www.mybroadcastbuyer.info/article_1376.shtml

"The satellite service will include two channels: a main channel that distributes free programming to households, sports bars, hotel chains, and other small public venues; and an event channel that distributes pay-per-view events to theatres equipped with electronic projection and surround-sound systems."

I think its fairly clear that the best stuff will simply not be available to us home-users, even ppv is looking as if it will restricted to theatres? I wonder if we could still manage to access it via PC ;) ?
Paul

[Dutch]

Paul,

I read that the Smart Imperator receiver will have a DVI output - which is nice! :smoke:

Steve

[PaulB]

Hi Steve,
Ah, I forgot about that one. (Thumps head in annoyance) I'm thinking "euro1080 = Sky = need special box" which is wrong of course.

DVI will be great as long as we don't get the encryption flag which would be unlikely I think - the DVI equipped crowd will be mega happy in any case!

Us analogue folks would still need a transcoder but thats just (minor) hassle rather than a problem.
Cheers,
Paul

[zAndy1]

Forgive me for being thick but if this turns out to be true I guess that means getting a dish and a Skystar2 card etc is a waste of time and the only way to view this will be through a set top box? Glad I didn't rush out and buy the dish etc!

Cheers,
Andy.

[rigman]

the only way to view this will be through a set top box

well that depends on the encryption. Software is a wonderful thing. ;)

Darren

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

And you'd still need a dish.

Gordon

[zAndy1]

lol, yeah of course I'll still need a dish (I hadn't forgotten, honest).. but I don't see any point investing in a PCI DVB card right now if it turns out you can't use it anyway. Best sit tight and see what happens in the new year me thinks..

Cheers,
Andy.

[helipilot]

Arghhhhh !!

This is typical, I have just invested in all the gear to receive Euro1080 and the goalposts have been shifted !!


I have emailed Euro1080 for clarification.

The chances of it being a typo seem a bit slim so what are the options for PC Viewers ?

1) An add on viewing card reader for the PC ?

2) A software decoder that has to be purchased from Euro1080 ?


I am new to this PC satellite game so my knowledge is limited, does anyone know if either of the above is even feasible or possible ?



Alan

[PaulB]

I'm firmly in the wait and see camp. It will likely be easily receivable via PC but I'm happy to hangfire the 6 weeks before we find out for sure and play catch up once the dust settles.

I suspect we'll know sooner than the start-up date as they need to make sure their intended audience is ready and waiting!
Paul

[PaulB]

More info. Apparantly (and this is informed speculation rather than fact I think but it ties in with everything being said above) Euro 1080 is going to be encrypted under Irdeto 2.

Likely this will be just for the Event channel as the Euro 1080 faq states that the main channel will not be encrypted.

Chris - if true, how would this impact reception of the Event channel via PC cards such as the Skystar2 etc?

Paul

[Chris Muriel]

Erm , what I can say is the there is some interesting educational 3rd party software and utilities around for Skystar cards.
NB : I do not actually have a Skystar card . I have 2 other cards.
1 is a Broadlogic BL2030. These rarely appear in UK but right now if you search on Ebay.co.uk for Broadlogic you should actually find some (with a Buy-it-now" tag).

Chris Muriel.

[pietnoeck]

Do these BL2300 also work with third party software on the necrypted channels or are these card only good for HDTV ?

[Chris Muriel]

They're good for any FTA (Free |To Air) DVB TV ; with ProgDVB and certain additional utilities you may have some luck with some encrypted stuff.
I use DVBApps, which does nothing with encrypted signals - but I find it far easier to use than ProgDVB (and anyway I am an alpha-tester and technical ideas provider for Hans - the author of DVBApps). Lots of Broadlogic info also on his site - even in the unregistered open area : www.dvbapps.com

Chris Muriel, Manchester.

[rigman]

The Skystar 2 arrived today and I have managed to get it working with FTA and encrypted stuff although it took a bit of work. My 1 gig athlon is struggling with the normal type programs and locks up after a while. I will try the Hidef stuff tomorrow but do not hold out much hope. :(

zAndy1
if you get a dish and a card now then you will be an expert by the time you need it for real when Euro 1080 does go mainstream programming. ;)

Darren

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

MY understanding is that the channels will be encrypted after a couple of months. At that point there will only be a FTA 2hr demo loop like there is now.

Gordon

[PaulB]

That makes sense, the phrase I heard used was "conditional" FTA which ties in with the £70 one-off fee for a card or whatever then thats it for life - bit like Freeview I suppose!
Paul

[helipilot]

As of yet there is no update on the Euro1080 web site.


Last update
September 11, 2003

It still says :-


" Euro1080 HDTV Main Channel to consumers and small venues
The characteristics for the channel as delivery chain for HDTV to the consumers in its first years will be as follows:

Free-to-air, so no special decryption or subscription required."


I have had no feedback from Euro1080, hopefully they will at least reply to clarify the situation.


Alan

[Muf]

Perhaps the one time payment of £70 refers to the purchase of the "special set top box" which would be required by the average viewer, but hopefully not the PC wizard. I have not seen the magazine article that sparked this off but it might be a good idea to ask the publishers to clarify.

Jim

[PaulB]

There is to be a major article in the forthcoming January edition of What Satellite (available 18th December from all good newsagents) about Euro 1080 and how to receive it (December's edition was just a taster!).
paul

[pietnoeck]

Well don't hold you're breath, here is what I found on a Dutch board :
"Can you please give some more information about the HD STB. Where and
when
to buy and at what cost?

Dear,

Thank you for your interest in Euro1080.

To receive the Euro1080-signal you need a dish on your roof
(transmission via satellite), a decoder (a set top box) and a
HD-display.

The STB with CA will be available on the market for the costumers from
March 2004 on. Before that time, there will be DEMO-boxes at the
distribution chains where we have a partnership with, without CA-card.
We are in the last faze of this partnership deals, but I cannot tell you
anything specific at this moment.

If you cannot wait till that moment, please feel free to order already
(without CA) at:

ZINTEC HOLDING B.V.
Einsteinstraat 27
2811 EP Reeuwijk
Tel: +31 0182 393 228
Contact: Gerard Meijer
gmeijer@zintec.com

Best regards,"

CA doesn't sound good at all if you ask me.
What this means for pc users I dare not sy.

[Muf]

pietnoeck that looks 'not so bad'
call me an optomist if you like but the way I see it, the STB is a multi format receiver able to receive SD channels as well as HD, both encrypted and non encrypted.
So you could interpret the reply as: If you want to receive HD immediately go ahead and order the STB without CA but if you want a full function STB with CA wait till march 2004 which means the HD channel is FTA.
It's a pity we dont have a clear cut answer and have to speculate like this.

Jim

[PaulB]

Zintec HDTV box piccy and link


http://zintec.com/zintec_hdtv.html
Paul

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

The Zinwell box is FTA. It will show other FTA programmes on the satellite as well as Euro1080i. It can output at 576P, 1080I and I think 720P?

I might get one as I believe they are available now.

If anyone else fancies one let me know by email ( NOT PM as it's always close to full) and we'll see if we can get numbers up high enough to get them cheaper. Currently looking at 350euros plus VAT I think.

Gordon

[Paul D]

I'd be up for one!:smashin:

[PaulB]

What outputs are there? Just component I think, no RGB?

Edit - ah, here we go, this looks like it - http://www.zintech.com.tw/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=57 No RGB nor DVI

Paul

[zAndy1]

I'm confused, does this mean the one that is currently available is a FTA receiver whereas the one available in March will have a conditional access module too. That means if we purchase the one that is currently available it is assuming that no card will be needed for Euro1080, do we have enough info to be able to make such an assumption? I'd be interested but only if I can be persuaded it won't be useless in a few months time!

Cheers
Andy

[pietnoeck]

Hi,

Two other contenders for receiving euro1080 are the Smart Imperator (http://www.areadvd.de/news/2003/200311/111120030001.shtml) and the Integra IT912 (http://www.hdtvmax.com/it912sspec.htm).

Both have better specs than the Zintec box.

[Chris Muriel]

The IT912 is well thought of by the satellite feedhunters in the USA (www.satforums.com of which I am a member).

Chris Muriel, Manchester, UK

[zAndy1]

And the Integra has DVI, so where will this be available to purchase and how much?

Andy.

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

The Zinwell model is designed purely for FTA and will be useless when encrypted content starts. It is for demo use only.

Gordon

[rigman]

I would not be willing to buy something that would be useless for Euro 1080 in a months time. Gordon if you are interested in setting up a power buy I would be interested as long as its for a receiver that will take a CAM. So if you could wait until they come out then I am your man. I will also now hold off on an upgrade to my PC as well.

I hate sitting on the fence (I want it now!!!) but I also hate even more having a cupboard full of expensive useless equipment. D2mac decoder, Phillips CDI, SVHS-video recorder etc etc

Darren

[rigman]

I emailed Euro 1080 to as for clarification athe end of last week and have just received a reply for those that are interested It is similar to the last email posted with a bit more info on the dates of encryption.

here it is:

'Dear Sir,

Thank you for your interest in Euro1080!

From Jan - May no encryption
From May - end 2004 encryption of fresh material (not the reruns)
From 2005 totally encrypted

The STB with CA will be available on the market for the costumers from
March 2004 on. Before that time, there will be DEMO-boxes at the
distribution chains where we have a partnership with, without CA-card.
We are in the last faze of this partnership deals, but I cannot tell you
anything specific at this moment.

If you cannot wait till that moment, please feel free to order already
(without CA) at:

ZINTEC HOLDING B.V.
Einsteinstraat 27
2811 EP Reeuwijk
Tel: +31 0182 393 228
Contact: Gerard Meijer
gmeijer@zintec.com

Best regards,

Vicky De Beule'


So it looks like if you order now then the box will not be osolete until the end of next year as long as you want to watch repeats for 7 months :(

I will just go the computer option for now. I need to get a HDTV sub board for my Barco anyway to watch it on my cinema. That is going to cost £250. Nothing is ever cheap and easy in this hobby is it?

Darren

[camtheman]

I know everyone is doing their own ->decryption<- of Euro1080's ambiguous statements, but forgive me for thinking the email above seems to say that the main FTA channel AND the Event channel will be FTA till may? Which strikes me as being a good thing.
Which only leaves the question of whether the main FTA channel will be unencrypted in 2005 or not. The email only deals with encryption on a programme to programme basis. It still doesn't clearly say what's gonna happen to the main FTA channel.
Oh well in either case by 2005 Euro1080 won't be the only HDTV channel around. Atlantic Bird 12.5W anyone?

[rigman]

Oh well in either case by 2005 Euro1080 won't be the only HDTV channel around

I hope you are right.

I wonder is Sky could be persuaded. They have a lot of criticism (including me) but I must admit that Sky+ is a fantastic system especially with the dual record function. They keep coming up with suprises (dolby digital) so you never know one day they may just announce Sky+2 with HDTV capability for their new HDTV channel.

Well I can dream cant I :cool:

Darren

[andynumpty]

How can these set top boxes be connected to a plasma screen to get HD pictures, via scart, component or dvi?

[Kramer]

Originally posted by andynumpty
How can these set top boxes be connected to a plasma screen to get HD pictures, via scart, component or dvi?

Component is the only option at the moment - the boxes don't have RBG or DVI.

[rigman]

There is a picture of one of the receivers that will shortly be released in this months What Satellite and a comprehensive report on HDTV which is a very interesting read.
They say that the encryption will be Irdeto and the price of the receiver includes the subscription to the channel. The receiver shown is said to cost around £400 and there will be a few more models available for March release.


Darren

[zAndy1]

Yeah, but where do you buy one from?!

Cheers,
Andy.

[banane]

Euro 1080 is gonna be encrypted in Irdeto.
A 200 euro acces card will be necessary...
No actual terminal do HD and Irdeto.
The best is to wait a few months !

[zAndy1]

So what's the point of launching on 1st Jan if you can't get the equipment to watch it anywhere! Bloody stupid..

Andy

[rigman]

Yes it is
unless you want to go to the trouble of hooking up a very powerful (and expensive) PC to your projector :thumbsdow

I dont mind too much paying high prices to be an early adopter but if I do pay high prices I want simplicity and plug and play. I do not want to spend a fortune on a high end PC and then spend hours setting it all up.

Irdeto has been out for years surely they could have had at least one receiver with it built in ready for launch day.

Darren

[zAndy1]

I've already got an adequate PC hooked up to my projector but it sounds like getting a DVB card for the PC is a waste of time as it'll be encrypred in Irdeto so I won't be able to use the PC to receive it anyway. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

Cheers,
Andy.

[rigman]

You could use a softcam which emulates Irdeto on your PC. You need to get the correct codes though and make up a key file. You maybe better going to one of the satellite forums and asking the right questions.

A Skystar 2 PC satellite card is pretty cheap (around £50) and you can get lots more on it than just the HI def channel.

[zAndy1]

Such as (i.e. is there more hidef stuff available)? I don't know what to do, I've just seen the program schedule for 1080 and it's not very interesting, unless you like classical music/opera! Not sure it's worth it TBH

Cheers,
Andy.

[rigman]

Such as

films - lots in English
Blue movies (if you like that sort of thing)
Dozens of music channels. Some of these you pay for with sky and are actually free on the other sats.
News feeds (far more interesting than the real thing)
You can have a good laugh at the foreign channels. Some have to be seen to be believed.

Obviously a motorised dish helps.

No other HD channels unfortunately. I agree that Euro 1080 does not look that appealing. I was expecting discovery HD type programming as well. There is a lot of HD stuff both in archive and current production. You would have thought they would have spiced it up with some of that.

Darren

[zAndy1]

So the films, blue movies etc are not encryped? Which satellite(s) are we talking about here, motorised is not really an option at the mo.

Cheers,
Andy.

[rigman]

Yes they are encrypted. I cannot go into too much detail as I will break the forum rules but there is a clue in one of my earlier posts on how this is dealt with.

The encrypted channels are all over the arc, mostly on hispasat 30W, Sirius 5E, Hotbird 13E, Astra 19.2E.

This was just to answer your questions but if you cannot have a motorised then apart from one dish and two LNB type option then it is up to you to decide if it is worth it or not. From your previous few posts you seem to have decided it is not.

Darren

[rigman]

There is a review of the Zinwell model in the latest edition of What Satellite if anyone is interested. Not very comprehensive just what we expected really, a great looking HDTV picture but it is a poorly featured receiver for everything else. It does say they can and plan to update the software in the future though.

Darren

[SimonO]

Or try one of these...

www.multilnbdish.com

Dark grey 'Force' branded available from www.tps.uk.com & light grey 'Visiosat' branded from www.sccdistribution.co.uk

I'm having the 55 fitted next week... I should get 28/19 & 13 loud and clear...

[Baggy]

How much is the "Visiosat"?

[SimonO]

I think I paid around £95, but it was bundled in with some other bits... Both companies are very helpful...

[Baggy]

SimonO,
When you get it let us know what you think.Does that sub reflector make it appear a bigger lump than it actually is.
Do SCC sell to the public or just trade?

[SimonO]

The main dish is 65cm wide by 55cm high... The sub reflector doesn't look that big really (looks more like a 60 than a 70 IMO), certainly the whole thing is a lot smaller than the Visiosat 'Bisat' which is a 75cm... Only thing to watch out for is the depth of your LNB which could foul on the sub reflector brackets... I've bought a quad Invacom for Sky+ and two single Invacoms for 19 & 13... You could probably get away with a cheaper quad, but the single Invacoms were recommended for 19/13 because of the dish size... I'm having the dish installed on Tuesday 3rd, I let you know how I get on...


SCC have a trade counter but were quite happy to sell to me..!

[zAndy1]

Would you need planning permission for the 55cm dish, I'd guess not but would like to be sure. It looks like a nice solution, it would be nice to be able to dust off the old Humax receiver again!

Cheers
Andy

[zAndy1]

Is a 55cm dish really adequate for pulling in a good enough signal from 28, 19 and 13 degrees? I'm very interested in going down this route, I'd want a Quad LNB at 28E for Sky+, then one LNB each for 13E and 19E (Hotbird/Astra). I would want to use a Humax F1VACI digital receiver and also a Skystar2 PCI card, is this all possible? I guess I could just have the hotbird feed going to the Humax box and the 19E feed going to the Skystar2 for Euro1080, that way I wouldn't need any switching boxes I assume? Would I miss out on a lot by not having the Hotbird feed available to the skystar2?

Cheers,
Andy.

[SimonO]

I'd say it's more like a 60cm than a 70cm so it's probably borderline for Hotbird, depending on your location... I'll let you know how I get on... I've run four Sky feeds for the quad (three for the living room and one for the bedroom) and then a single feed to the other two LNB's via a DiSEqc switch... If I was doing the cabling again I would probably run separate feeds for 19 & 13...

I don't think you need planning permission for a single dish unless it's going on the roof..?

Personally I'm looking out for an HD STB with common interface slots and digital audio out.. Don't think there are any available yet... Initially I'll use a Skystar 2 card...

[Chris Muriel]

I don't think you need planning permission for a single dish unless it's going on the roof..?

You don't need planning permission up tp 90 cms unless you're in a conservation area, listed building , national park etc.
(there are special rules for these).

Chris Muriel (currently in Boston but still checking the forums).

[SimonO]

Here is a picture of my Visiosat (Wave Frontier) toroidal dish... The two white LNB's are single 0.3 Invacoms for 13E and 19.2E and the grey one in a quad 0.3 Invacom for Sky...

I haven't been able to watch Euro1080 yet because my PC isn't up to the job, but I'm getting a good signal from all three LNB's...

[SimonO]

One more...

[vtvjose]

Dear SimonO,
Thanq for the information. Where did you get your wave frontier. I was disappointed when the German supplier after agreeing initialy thro ebay to send it and later returned my euro cheque without any satisfactory reason.
It was about £90.00. Now a London based company offers it for £350.00. It looks rather steep.Any comments?
jose

[SimonO]

Have a look at the previous page... I've listed the two UK agents...

[simon 2003]

better off with a motek diseq mount and a decent 80cm,(approx 100quid)although a zone 2 sly dish is enough for hotbird from the UK,nice pic BUT that looks a bit of a lump in the wind,and that pole aint good enough IMHO,the k peice of the bracket should be at the bottom (again in my opinion)quite exposed too lookin over the roof,dont want to panic you m8 LOL,just they crimp a bit easy if you over tighten u-bolts,i use a scaffold pole ,nowhere fast:clap: