Dirty screen effect on 428XD? Say it ain't so!

Well, I'll certainly look into doing that if they refuse a refund!

Also, I realised I can't register for the five-year warranty because they never filled in and signed the card for me! One way or the other, I'll get that sorted.

Thanks for all the advice guys, and wish me luck!
You might also get some protection from your Credit Card company if you bought it on plastic.

Mark Mac
 
i.e despite the denials from Pio, the retailer agreed to exchange or refund the screen. I has a dirty screen 427, John Lewis agreed to refund the screen because their engineer agreed that there was a problem - they didn't even refer it to Pio.

Mark Mac

John lewis did this with me too, not even an engineer.

So what do John Lewis do then, take a hit on it or do they return it to Pioneer and say you will take this back or we will be very happy only to stock Panasonic Plasmas?

Also what screen do you have now?
 
John lewis did this with me too, not even an engineer.

So what do John Lewis do then, take a hit on it or do they return it to Pioneer and say you will take this back or we will be very happy only to stock Panasonic Plasmas?

Also what screen do you have now?
I don't know (and didn't care :) ) what John Lewis did with the screen, they do mark down returns and re-sell them - maybe they did that in this instance?

I've now got a Panasonic PH10 from AVSales (AVForums Powerbuy).

Mark Mac
 
Hi everybody,
I have got my 428 for few months now. I haven't noticed anything suspicious on my screen, but I wasn't looking for it (I'm not sure do I really want to start looking for it), but can somebody tell me what is the best way to see if the problem is there or not. Somebody (I think it was Simon) said something about looking at blank page in the PS3's web browser, will I see it over there?

Also I think it would be easier for everybody who are reading this thread and want to check their screens, if somebody could post few pictures of how exactly this 'dirty screen' issue looks.

Thank you
 
Hi everybody,
I have got my 428 for few months now. I haven't noticed anything suspicious on my screen, but I wasn't looking for it (I'm not sure do I really want to start looking for it), but can somebody tell me what is the best way to see if the problem is there or not. Somebody (I think it was Simon) said something about looking at blank page in the PS3's web browser, will I see it over there?

Also I think it would be easier for everybody who are reading this thread and want to check their screens, if somebody could post few pictures of how exactly this 'dirty screen' issue looks.

Thank you

Hi mate,

To be honest, don't even go there if you can't see then let sleeping dogs lie, if you do it and see it then it will annoy you thereafter! If you really must then go into options and run a video pattern and look for dark lines, shadows within the white band, I wouldn't if were you!
 
Hi everybody,
I have got my 428 for few months now. I haven't noticed anything suspicious on my screen, but I wasn't looking for it (I'm not sure do I really want to start looking for it), but can somebody tell me what is the best way to see if the problem is there or not. Somebody (I think it was Simon) said something about looking at blank page in the PS3's web browser, will I see it over there?

Also I think it would be easier for everybody who are reading this thread and want to check their screens, if somebody could post few pictures of how exactly this 'dirty screen' issue looks.

Thank you
OK, I've uploaded a photo here that shows the problem really clearly. Beware though; once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny! What I mean to say is, once you've seen it you might start looking for it elsewhere. Here's what to do:

- Save image to PS3 (either copy it across or download it from the browser)
- Open image in PS3 photo viewer
- Use PS3 controller to zoom right in to 200%
- Starting in the top-left of the photo, slowly and steadily pan across it

Now, if you have the problem (which is likely, as I now suspect many/most plasmas do to some degree), against the smooth gradient of the clear blue sky you will see dirty 'bumps' all over the image. To be more specific, they are quite faint thick vertical lines spread across the screen, as if the screen is a slightly uneven surface like a ruffled curtain.

Let us know if it works, and if you see it. And how you feel about that. :D
 
Hi mate,

To be honest, don't even go there if you can't see then let sleeping dogs lie, if you do it and see it then it will annoy you thereafter! If you really must then go into options and run a video pattern and look for dark lines, shadows within the white band, I wouldn't if were you!

DON'T DO IT !!!! WHATEVER YOU DO... DON'T GO THERE...

... but if you really must, here are some bullets and a 'how to shoot yourself in the foot' guide :devil:
 
:rotfl:

Hey, he wanted to know how to see the problem! I'm not going to deny him the info.
 
Hahaha, thanks guys! :thumbsup:

I know I shouldn't do it, I am very happy with my screen, but on the other hand - I am curious :suicide: I will give it a second thought.

I looked closer when my missus was watching some (not very interesting) movie tonight and couldn't see anything wrong. I think my set is fault free (well, I hope so).
 
Well, I just emailed PRC customer services about this:

Simon Young said:
Dear Sirs,

I bought a Pioneer PDP-428XD from your Ilford store on the 17th January for £1550, plus £40 to have it delivered to my home in Cambridgeshire. After a couple of weeks of use, I realised that the display had a fault. When viewing a large area made up of one colour (such as the pitch on a football match, the background graphics on a video game, or the sky in a movie or television show) and the camera begins to pan or track across the image, a pattern of vertical, shadow-like stripes over the image is clearly visible. I believe this effect has been described as 'dirty screen' by other customers who have spotted the issue, and was rife in Pioneer's 7G range of plasmas. It is particularly noticeable when viewing photographs, watching sport and playing video games, although it can be distracting when watching films on Blu-ray and DVD. The problem is well documented online, and has been attributed by some to "delamination of the filter".

When I spoke to Pioneer on the phone about this, they immediately referred me back to PRC for a replacement as I was within 28 days of purchase. I phoned the Ilford store and spoke to a guy who agreed to have a new 428XD to be delivered to me. A week passed, and I heard nothing. Then, as it had been 27 days since I purchased the original, I phoned PRC back to find out what was going on. I was told that I had been confused with another customer, and they were very sincere and apologetic. A few days later, the replacement 428XD arrived. To my horror, it was transported off the van upside down, and when I opened it up the power cable had come loose from the packaging and had been sliding up and down inside the box, potentially damaging the plasma. I was unable to set up and test it for a couple of days due to other commitments, but when I finally did on Friday of last week I discovered that not only did the replacement have the same 'dirty screen' issue, but it was slightly worse! I have tried to live with the issue for a few days now, but I'm afraid I find it too distracting during normal use. A £1550 television should not have distracting flaws out-of-the-box, especially when cheaper alternatives do not appear to exhibit the problem.

Because I feel I am unable to live with the TV's faults, I would like to return it to PRC for a full refund as soon as possible. Your company have been fairly helpful regarding the issue so far, and I don't want to put you through the hassle of sending me yet another replacement. Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, goods sold must be "of satisfactory quality" and "fit for purpose". For a premium TV costing £1550, I do not find a distracting picture flaw to be of satisfactory quality, and because it inhibits my viewing pleasure it is clearly not fit for purpose.

Many thanks for your cooperation, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Simon Young
Here's hoping they get back to me with what I want to hear!
 
Good luck mate, maybe you could swap notes with jerrej on the 427 thread, he's just had a positive result in the small claims court over his DS 427.

Mark Mac
 
24 hours and no reply whatsoever. :confused:
 
Good idea! I'm rather glad they haven't phoned me yet, as I hate dealing with these sorts of situations on the phone. Things can get a little heated, and it is much harder to get one's point across succinctly. In a letter or email, you can make your point in a polite manner even though you're demanding compliance with the law.
 
Good idea! I'm rather glad they haven't phoned me yet, as I hate dealing with these sorts of situations on the phone. Things can get a little heated, and it is much harder to get one's point across succinctly. In a letter or email, you can make your point in a polite manner even though you're demanding compliance with the law.
A recorded delivery letter seems to show them you mean business, you'll be amazed how quickly they'll respond to that. Just make sure you're fully versed in the Sales of Goods act should you get a phone call. It's amazing how little these companies seem to know about an Act which has such a large impact on how they trade.

Mark Mac
 
Well, they've just emailed me with this:

Dear sir,

We have faxed your email to Pioneer customer service, awaiting for their reply

Regards

PRC Customer Services
So goodness knows what Pioneer's response will be. Judging by the experience of others, it's likely to be "within spec". Then what? :confused:
 
You know, I'm still not convinced that these are isolated cases. Perhaps most 428/4280 plasmas are affected, and the owners simply haven't realised. There must be a simple test that can demonstrate the problem clearly. :confused:

Interestingly, it has the same production date as the last one - October 2007. Surely there are newer ones in circulation? Perhaps it's a bad batch? :rolleyes:
I bought my 428 from PRC back in August and can't say I've seen this problem. I also had a 4280 for a few weeks and didn't see it on that one either. Perhaps my eyes aren't as attuned. I *do* see some problems during pans (source dependent) but this seems to be more ghosting/judder than anything (and I've seen it on CRTs too, so doubt it is the Pio)... Perhaps it is batch related. Would it be possible to make a video so I can see what you mean, or has the set gone back?
 
Well, they've just emailed me with this:


So goodness knows what Pioneer's response will be. Judging by the experience of others, it's likely to be "within spec". Then what? :confused:
Whatever Pioneer say to PRC doesn't make any difference to a degree. Your contract is with PRC, not Pioneer. I would suggest that you contact Consumer Direct if PRC don't play ball. Ideally you need to get an independent technician to confirm the fault and then go down the small claims court route. You need to start by advising PRC that you are going to take them to small claims unless they resolve this issue within say 7 days. You need to be specific about what you consider to be a resolution (i.e refund), You may get away without an independent report, as PRC may have effectively admitted that there's there a fault by swapping your initial screen - but please don't take my work for it, talk to consumer direct.

Anecdotal evidence indicates that these matters tend not to reach small claims, as it's too much trouble for the retailer. Just be professional and well prepared at all times, so they know they're dealing with someone who knows their rights.

Good Luck

Mark Mac
 
I bought my 428 from PRC back in August and can't say I've seen this problem. I also had a 4280 for a few weeks and didn't see it on that one either. Perhaps my eyes aren't as attuned. I *do* see some problems during pans (source dependent) but this seems to be more ghosting/judder than anything (and I've seen it on CRTs too, so doubt it is the Pio)... Perhaps it is batch related. Would it be possible to make a video so I can see what you mean, or has the set gone back?
Did you try the test I outlined a couple of pages back?
 
Did you try the test I outlined a couple of pages back?

Hmmmm, just tried it. Nothing to report other than the ghosting issue of sideways movement on the building (which is a seperate issue I guess). The sky was exactly as seen in the picture.
 
Well, either not all 428XDs have the problem (which is a good thing for me) or your eyes aren't quite attuned to the problem (like how some people can't see 3:2 pulldown 'judder' but it leaps out at others). Either way, I'm glad it doesn't disrupt your viewing pleasure, and makes me all the more anxious to get mine sorted! :smashin:
 
Simon,
I don't see it on mine, and I know what to look for(4270 riddled with it).
Hope you get sorted.
 
Well, either not all 428XDs have the problem (which is a good thing for me) or your eyes aren't quite attuned to the problem (like how some people can't see 3:2 pulldown 'judder' but it leaps out at others). Either way, I'm glad it doesn't disrupt your viewing pleasure, and makes me all the more anxious to get mine sorted! :smashin:

If anything I'm the other way, I see every little flaw and drive my girlfriend mad. I'm very sensitive to judder and rainbows (plainbows!) and am quite a critical viewer/reviewer but I'm glad to say 'dirty screen' remains a mystery. The closest I could approximate to it is the fact sometimes there is a bit of grain to the picture , but that only seems to be around in lower quality broadcasts
 
If anything I'm the other way, I see every little flaw and drive my girlfriend mad. I'm very sensitive to judder and rainbows (plainbows!) and am quite a critical viewer/reviewer but I'm glad to say 'dirty screen' remains a mystery. The closest I could approximate to it is the fact sometimes there is a bit of grain to the picture , but that only seems to be around in lower quality broadcasts

If you have looked and looked especially across slow horizontal pans on light backgrounds or during football when the goalkeeper kicks the ball upfield and the camera pans out and follows the ball across from afar or during cricket games when the camera pans across the whole field and as you say you have a critical eye then you simply don't have the problem as you can't see it despite being told what to look for. I can guarantee the problem is not a "bit of grain" in the picture, this issue is visually distracting and puts you off what you are watching.

Personally if I couldn't see it I wouldn't go looking for it.

This problem is usually there regardless of what you are watching or from what source as it is a screen fault not a PQ issue.

I have had 2 screens both had it both have been returned, am back on a shabby Sharp 28" CRT, so small and ugly, CRT have good blacks my ar** but it didn't cost £1500 so I can live with it but for how long...............

I am cursed:D
 

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