Panasonic VT20 Owners blur & pan shot issues - part 1

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My serial number is FA-0250081, I am not a football fan but after reading this forum I had a look at the match on last night through SKY HD and sure enough a multiple centre line on fast pan, I was also in the local Panasonic shop today and was looking at a match on a G20 which didn't look to bad, the sales assistant came up and asked if I was looking for a new TV, I explained I had a VT20 and told him I was looking at the G20 to see if this problem was on there, he then tuned the VT20 on display to the same football match and hey presto there it was, he stood and agreed with me and stated he had not noticed it until I pointed it out to him.
 
My serial number is FA-0250081, I am not a football fan but after reading this forum I had a look at the match on last night through SKY HD and sure enough a multiple centre line on fast pan, I was also in the local Panasonic shop today and was looking at a match on a G20 which didn't look to bad, the sales assistant came up and asked if I was looking for a new TV, I explained I had a VT20 and told him I was looking at the G20 to see if this problem was on there, he then tuned the VT20 on display to the same football match and hey presto there it was, he stood and agreed with me and stated he had not noticed it until I pointed it out to him.

When you say the G20 didn't look too bad, do you mean you didn't notice the multiple lines?

I can confirm my V20 doesn't display this on SkyHD. I will keep a look out on other sets at work, if not every VT owner is noticing it then surely its a faulty batch.

But I can't understand what hardware differences there would be in production which would cause this.

I would think its highly unlikely that software/firmware can be causing this.

Only thing I can think of is that it could possibly be something to do with the IFC processing.
 
On the G20 the centre line went slightly fuzzy on fast pan which is probably normal but there was no sign of multiple ghosting of lines.
 
Okay - my set is not showing any issues with the football and my serial number is:

FA-0310234
 
Okay - my set is not showing any issues with the football and my serial number is:

FA-0310234

this is interesting, my serial number is only 14 away from yours, so one could assume they were both produced at the same time with the same bits etc, what source are you using? I currently use an Amstrad skyhd box, the small one with a 500gb drive.
 
I doubt it's the scaler but more likely to be the de-interlacer in the telly I think? Are you able to bypass the video processing on your amp to try?

I tried connecting my cable box directly to the VT20 with a monster scart (RGB). This resulted in a much more fuzzy picture in all, also with some motion blur.

My usual conncetion is RGB out of cable box via component converter into AMP and via HDMI to VT20. This works very well.

I also wish to add that I bought this set after trying a PF20 (Pro), and reading the review here on VT20. The "quick phosphor" argument made me think that motion blur was totally abscent on theese sets.

The only motion blur I can register is the one coming from compression and other anomalies one should expect from presenting PAL on 50" screen (wich I think was never ment to be..)

My motion blur free set has serial FA 0324069 with latest firmware with settings pickud up from this forum.
 
I tried connecting my cable box directly to the VT20 with a monster scart (RGB). This resulted in a much more fuzzy picture in all, also with some motion blur.

My usual conncetion is RGB out of cable box via component converter into AMP and via HDMI to VT20. This works very well.

I also wish to add that I bought this set after trying a PF20 (Pro), and reading the review here on VT20. The "quick phosphor" argument made me think that motion blur was totally abscent on theese sets.

The only motion blur I can register is the one coming from compression and other anomalies one should expect from presenting PAL on 50" screen (wich I think was never ment to be..)

My motion blur free set has serial FA 0324069 with latest firmware with settings pickud up from this forum.

Interesting.

My amp only upscales analogue to 1080p over HDMI. Perhaps I should try analogue out of the SkyHD box to the amp...
 
Serial number FA-0320403

motion issues on sport- half way line issue for both rugby and footy via Sky HD.
*
 
My Replacement is being delivered today (hopefully).

I will update you all on the improvement in football motion if any.

Thanks Andy

:facepalm:
 
Can I make a suggestion; to all those affected by this motion issue then please contact Panasonic Customer Service here [email protected]


If someone creates a simple email template outlining the issue then the more people sending it in the greater the chance of Panasonic listening & trying to resolve it, otherwise I'm afraid you will be peeing in the wind :)
 
serial number FA-0320309

I dont notice motion issues on the halfway line but have noticed it on players, especially when wearing red. see here for my post on VT20 owners thread.
 
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Here is the Email I just sent Panasonic

Dear Panasonic Customer care

I have recently bought the 50" VT20 Plasma 3d TV Serial Number FA-0250496.

As it is the world cup I have been watching lots of football & there seems to be an issue with the motion on fast camera pan's following players or the ball .

It's more than a simple blurring its a an artefact of the lines and the players when the camera pans, happens for a half a second or so and looks nasty.
Switching IFC on eliminates this but I'm not happy that I have to do so as IFC can introduce other minor artefacts & the TV is advertised for sport without needing the IFC function enabled.

I have had 1 set swapped over by my retailer already & the replacement set shows the problem too.

I am now waiting for my 3rd set if this is no better I am considering a refund as it is false advertising to say its good for fast sport when it seems it isn't, my wife & family have seen the issue too.

Please can you have a look at this issue for me I am viewing Freesat HD BBC HD or ITV HD.

Maybe a firmware update could be written as it seems to be an easy fix once you have detected it(hopefully) & maybe its just a broadcast issue & the way the VT20 is currently working.

Many Thanks

Mr A Jackson
 
Dear Panasonic Customer care

I have recently bought the 50" VT20 Plasma 3d TV Serial Number FA-0250496.

As it is the world cup I have been watching lots of football & there seems to be an issue with the motion on fast camera pan's following players or the ball .

It's more than a simple blurring its a an artefact of the lines and the players when the camera pans, happens for a half a second or so and looks nasty.
Switching IFC on eliminates this but I'm not happy that I have to do so as IFC can introduce other minor artefacts & the TV is advertised for sport without needing the IFC function enabled.

I have had 1 set swapped over by my retailer already & the replacement set shows the problem too.

I am now waiting for my 3rd set if this is no better I am considering a refund as it is false advertising to say its good for fast sport when it seems it isn't, my wife & family have seen the issue too.

Please can you have a look at this issue for me I am viewing Freesat HD BBC HD or ITV HD.

Maybe a firmware update could be written as it seems to be an easy fix once you have detected it(hopefully) & maybe its just a broadcast issue & the way the VT20 is currently working.

Many Thanks

Mr A Jackson

Well done Andy :), now there's a high probability that you response will be along the lines of this not being a known issue or that they have not had other complaints about it. When & if this happens then it is a perfect opportunity for the rest of the affected people to email in & make them aware ;)

If on the other hand they tell you it's being looked in to then there is hope for all concerned :)
 
I just mailed panasonic aswell reguarding the issue, so the more of us that do it the better :smashin:
 
Hi everyone. I am really pleased with my vt20 except for one thing. Watching the football when the ball is travelling quickly i see 'judder' or 'stutter' in the ball image, especially on goal kicks when the ball is at crowd level. Once the ball is travelling slower it looks fine. On bbchd and itvhd i see this. It is hardly noticeable on sd freeview. In all other respects the set is great. Watching the world cup though, is rubbish. I have not seen any line juddering or ready brek faces though.

I have fiddled with ifc etc and it never completely disappears. What should I do?
 
Hi everyone. I am really pleased with my vt20 except for one thing. Watching the football when the ball is travelling quickly i see 'judder' or 'stutter' in the ball image, especially on goal kicks when the ball is at crowd level. Once the ball is travelling slower it looks fine. On bbchd and itvhd i see this. It is hardly noticeable on sd freeview. In all other respects the set is great. Watching the world cup though, is rubbish. I have not seen any line juddering or ready brek faces though.

I have fiddled with ifc etc and it never completely disappears. What should I do?

IFC produces the juddering of the ball on goal kicks on my set. Turn it off and it is fine in that respect.
 
The 3rd Replacement VT20 has arrived.

I am watching the current match in THX mode the same issues are present with motion.:mad:

I have just changed to the cinema setting the symptoms are still there but not as bad, with IFC disabled it is almost watch-able/bearable.

I think it's best to set the best picture settings for each material rather than sticking to THX mode for everything. I have a feeling THX mode is not optimised for very fast movement of the camera as in football.

For all fellow VT20 football fans try cinema mode it maybe a big improvement over THX, just make sure you disable IFC as you don't want egg shaped footballs & other picture glitches.

Maybe our correspondence to Panasonic will give us an updated firmware so we can use THX mode for football as we want.

It's nice to get a replacement minus the screen burn/retention of the last set so I hope to be happy now.


Thanks Andy
:hiya:
 
Just had the technition round and he did see the problem. Because ive had the set more than 28 days he thinks it will be hard for me to get a replacement even though i only noticed the problem when the world cup started.

He said he would look at the set they have in store with IFC off ect and see if it has the same problem.
If it turns out every set if effected with this problem theres not much i can do about it.

Don't really know what to do now. as i would like a replacement to try but because its past 28 days now that might be hard as he said its not a really obvious fault like having a line down the screen ect.

Do you think i would have any luck speaking to someone higher up?
 
It is such a subjective problem but if it bugs you & the TV was especially for viewing the World cup & the engineer saw it too.
I think you should ask to speak to the authority at the Store & argue your case that it has spoilt the product for you.

The VT20 is definitely not as as good at fast sports as is claimed in the TV ad's.

What store was it? I will ad them to my ignore list if you get no satisfaction.

Good luck

Andy
 
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Sent my e-mail. I have a new TV coming in the next week or two. However, after seeing Andy's situation, i'm not to hopeful of having a faultless set.
 
The VT20 is definitely not as as good at fast sports as is claimed in the TV ad's.

Yes it is gaulling seeing Panasonics ads, specifically relating to sport (football in particular) and then having the audacity to tell us: 'Because motion clarity matters'

What the :censored: you bunch of :censored:

other than that i'm happy with the set :laugh:
 
Gonna post this here.

On hearing some peoples dismay I have just been to have a look in John Lewis in Watford, they have an area where on the back wall there is a 42S20, 42X20 42G20 a 50X20, 50VT20 and a 50G20.

On the left wall there was a Panny 42"LED LCD, a 40" Samsung, A Sharp 50" Quadtron and one of a 55" Sony's LED.

On The right wall there was a Samsung Plasma, a Samsung LCD, a Panasonic 37LED LCD and a Toshiba 46LCD.

Now they were all showing the Switzerland Chile game on BBC HD.

I'm going to light the torch paper here. The VT20 had 467 hours on it.

When I had one to test it was new out of the box and I did not see any football in it.

This set has some processing issues on it and there is NO WAY its faulty.

Before we get into motion, flicker, all the panny plasma sets were doing this strange flicker thing even when the image was still and a close up of the pundits in the studio, and you could see it all the time during the game, just the odd single flicker but very regular.

Motion

With IFC off (I did this with all the sets that had this feature), you guys are right, to me it looks like some kind of phosphor decay issue, the lines are breaking down during quick pans. Instead of seeing a blurred white line which all the other sets showed, all the Panny plasmas did the similar things its just that the other panny plasmas showed the usual green phosphor lag thing. The Panny LCDs did not. Now on the VT20 and the G20 what you saw was the white line breaking down into separate green blue and red lines, indicating that the discharge speeds of the 3 main colours are different. quite simply, the same thing was going on elsewhere in the image, the ad hoardings in the background and edges around players. All the non panny plasmas (including panny lcds) were not doing this.

With IFC on (all the sets that had this Feature) to be honest its out of the fat and into the frying pan. It vastly reduces this "image integrity" break up but introduces some other nasties. It causes judder because the speed of the pan is not constant and the camera is being moved by a human so the smoothing compensation that the set is adding is tripping up. It also causes tearing of lines and mosquito noise around images. It is causing line twitter and can clearly be seen around the nets where they appear to shimmer. But even worse, there is this weird moire effect that can be seen when there contrast between the stripes in the grass, its especially visible as the FIFA logo pans across the screen after a replay. All the sets with the IFC feature did this.

Not only that at least twice all the panny plasmas seemed to go into slowmo coming out of a replay for about 2-3 seconds before going back to normal, while the pannies did this all the other sets were normal.

Sadly these sets IMHO are not faulty. Its a trait and its what they do and I don't think this can be addressed by a firmware change, its just the set.

Andyjack you can go through 100 of these and IMHO they will all be the same.

The problem is now is that people are buying on recommendation, I'm sorry but now the sets in the shops are bedding in you need to go look at them.

There are one or 2 people who throw their toys out of their prams if anything is said against their choice of set.

The same issues are being raised now by people for these findings by owners not be taken seriously. The problem of "it must be faulty cuz mines ok" is caused by less discerning or untrained/uneducated eyes.

The traits raised here ARE present on all of them.

What the answer, I don't know, is there an alternative, IMHO nothing right now, the overall colour accuracy on the VT was far better than anything else but I agree motion is not great but new sets from others are on the way later in the year.

When I first had one to check against my reference set, I thought it was reasonable, now they are bedding in, and settling down, sadly as expected the masked issues from the panels initially being over driven are showing themselves, and while we are at it the set I had has shown a 0.004 MLL rise now measures 0.012, up from 0.008 not far off double. Same with the other set I am monitoring and both sets are between 500 and 600 hours.
 
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