Denon AVR-2310 Official Owners' Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hi all, not sure whether this should be tacked on here or start a new thread??....

Ok, please some suggestions as i realllly didn't want to have to take this back to the dealer already (;-(

Get on the 'phone to your Dealer rather than some hit and miss speculative fix. Open the box and you're likely to void your warranty.
 
Hi folks,

First time buyer of a AV Receiver here - Denon had an offer running on the 2310 that I couldn't refuse :)

After poring through the instruction manual, I managed to get everything hooked up and running. But there's one glitch which I simply can't figure out and I'm hoping you folks can help me out here.


  • I'm connecting a Cable TV set-top box to the AV Receiver with Component video & RCA Audio.
  • My TV is connected via the HDMI-Out to the Receiver.
    [-]
  • I go into the settings and under Manual Settings>HDMI Settings>Audio Output, I set it to TV
  • But the sound is still coming from the speakers connected to the Receiver! :mad:[/-]

Ok I should have read through the setup guide on batpig.com a little more closely - since I'm connecting the TV through HDMI, I can only force HDMI Audio through the TV speakers and not analogue audio - Is there a way to get the analogue audio to the TV? Plugging in RCA Audio cables? Any advice/suggestions would be very welcome!
 
Last edited:
i am following the thread. i noticed that i too have a slight lip sync problem when playing a blu ray via ps3.

200ms manual delay does seem to help with this film (iron man).
 
Must admit guys had the amp a few weeks now have yet to notice any Lipsinc issues but I have had a few HDMI problems. One cable I tried had real bad handshake problems and since my Sky HD has had the new Firmware and EPG update I no longer get sound through on standy. I was having problems with this before the update but a simple channels change remedied the problem now that doesnt even work. So now the wife uses DTS Cinema for the Hills what a bloooming waste lol. When I initially contacted Denon they said try a different cable or a Firmware update when I told them I had tried both they said your Sky HD may not be compatible with HDMI control. Bloody winner I bought this amp so I could have it on stanby for normal TV viewing. I hope a Firmware update comes out soon from Denon, but Im not holding my breath.
 
I can see that this is going to be a real problem for those with consoles that don't have HDMI, as they either have to put up with lag, or route a component cable to the TV.

Another alternative is to turn Video conversion off and just send the component source via the hdmi out without any upconversion.

I did some tests using an original premium 360 connected via component to a 2310, outputting via HDMI. Playing Rainbow 6 Vegas, I noticed very obvious lag when Video Conversion was switched on, but when it was off, I couldn't see any difference to having the component cables plugged directly into the TV.

I couldn't see any picture quality difference either, although the xbox was outputting 720p, and the screen's 720p so I wasn't really expecting too.

Balders.
 
Another alternative is to turn Video conversion off and just send the component source via the hdmi out without any upconversion.
How would that work? Video conversion is required to convert the component signal to HDMI.

If you turn off Video conversion on a component source, the only way you can get a picture to your TV is to run a component cable from the receiver to TV. Or am I missing something?
 
I can confirm lag on my new AVR-2310 as well. My findings are very similar to Simonmar in terms of the amount of lag.

I tried three main connection combinations with my Xbox 360 Elite and tested for lag using the Guitar Hero Metallica lag calibration tool:

Test 1 - Xbox component output, Video Convert ON, HDMI connection from AVR-2310 to TV - 65-90ms delays.

Test 2 - Xbox HDMI output, Video Convert ON, HDMI connection from AVR-2310 to TV - 40-50ms delays.

Test 3 - Xbox HDMI output, Video Convert OFF, HDMI connection from AVR-2310 to TV - 0ms delays.

I ran the calibration test 4-5 times with each connection combination, and the results were always within the ranges above.

The result of the second test is interesting, as it shows that the analog to digital conversion in the first test adds an extra degree of lag.

So basically, with video conversion on there is an unavoidable degree of lag. There is lag with HDMI to HDMI conversion, but when you throw analog to digital conversion into the mix, the lag is almost twice as bad. In my opinion, when it comes to gaming, 40-50ms is bad enough, but 65-90ms is unplayable.

With my system I will now have the Xbox connected permanently via HDMI with Video Convert off, as I can't stand lag. I lose the advantage of the GUI overlay, but I can deal with that.

Regardless of this issue, I love the 2310 and would recommend it to anyone, although people with consoles that have component output as the best option have something to think about.
 
I'm going to be interested to see how Denon respond, my 2310 is out with them now and if they decide that this is just the way it is, what the hell do I do? I purchased this amp with analogue to HDMI conversion in mind, more specifically for consoles. It would seem that this thing isn't fit for purpose if lag is simply the way it works.
 
I'm going to be interested to see how Denon respond, my 2310 is out with them now and if they decide that this is just the way it is, what the hell do I do? I purchased this amp with analogue to HDMI conversion in mind, more specifically for consoles. It would seem that this thing isn't fit for purpose if lag is simply the way it works.
I would certainly sympathise with that, but I wonder if lag is an unavoidable consequence of video conversion at this sort of pricepoint, regardless of brand. If so, then you haven't really got many options. You either put up with the lag, which is not an option to me, run a component cable to your TV (defeating one of the main advantages of an AV receiver) or you get an HDMI version of your console and switch off video conversion. I guess if you have a Wii, the last option is not possible.

I'll certainly be interested what Denon say to you about your 2310. They originally said lag shouldn't happen, but will look a bit silly if they suddenly turn around and say it's an unavoidable consequence of video conversion.
 
The problem is, this isn't just feeding my TV, it's feeding a projector too - I've got an HDMI cable running back there but running extra cables would be a nightmare. Additionally, I've got my X360 that's unfortunately component only (though it just red ring of deathed so hopefully I'll get back an HDMI one). I don't paying again for the console for that. I've also got an old Xbox and PS2 that naturally can't be plugged in via HDMI.

I've asked elsewhere on this forum and people don't seem to be experiencing the same problems with other amps so I think it's entirely possible that others do it better. Also, to be honest if I knew this amp couldn't sufficiently route the video signals I probably wouldn't have bought an amp at all, just stuck with my old Marantz and saved myself almost 700 quid. This is why I'm very concerned.
 
How would that work? Video conversion is required to convert the component signal to HDMI.

If you turn off Video conversion on a component source, the only way you can get a picture to your TV is to run a component cable from the receiver to TV. Or am I missing something?

I might be thinking of the I/P scaler setting rather than Video Convert.

Thinking back to my quick test last week, I believe you can turn Video Convert (or I/P Scaller) OFF for the Component case. Output still goes via HDMI, but the output will be the same resolution as the component input (in my case 720p in -> 720p out). Obviously you lose the GUI overlay too.

If I have time later, I'll try it again.

Balders.
 
I might be thinking of the I/P scaler setting rather than Video Convert.

Thinking back to my quick test last week, I believe you can turn Video Convert (or I/P Scaller) OFF for the Component case. Output still goes via HDMI, but the output will be the same resolution as the component input (in my case 720p in -> 720p out). Obviously you lose the GUI overlay too.

If I have time later, I'll try it again.

Balders.

Yeah you're thinking of the scaler, if you disable video conversion on any analogue signal while outputting through HDMI you get no output.
 
I might be thinking of the I/P scaler setting rather than Video Convert.

Thinking back to my quick test last week, I believe you can turn Video Convert (or I/P Scaller) OFF for the Component case. Output still goes via HDMI, but the output will be the same resolution as the component input (in my case 720p in -> 720p out). Obviously you lose the GUI overlay too.

If I have time later, I'll try it again.

Balders.
Yep, you can turn off the scaler, but video conversion needs to be on for component>HDMI.

I tested for lag with the i/p scaler switched off, but it was just as bad. The only setting that has an impact on lag for me is the Video Convert setting.
 
I've asked elsewhere on this forum and people don't seem to be experiencing the same problems with other amps so I think it's entirely possible that others do it better. Also, to be honest if I knew this amp couldn't sufficiently route the video signals I probably wouldn't have bought an amp at all, just stuck with my old Marantz and saved myself almost 700 quid. This is why I'm very concerned.

Here's some specs I found on the Anchor bay ABT2010 chip that the 2310 uses:

Anchor Bay » ABT2010 » Advanced Video Processor

It contains the onimous phrase "3 frame video processing delay", however that's under the section about deinterlacing, and we seem to be experiencing delay even when converting progressive signals.

Also on that page is a reference to the "ABT2010 video delay calculator spreadsheet (.xls)", which is only available under NDA apparently :mad: Presumably that would tell you what delay you can expect under different scaling/conversion modes. Perhaps we should do some more GH experiments and publish our own version of that spreadsheet :D

I'd be surprised if other amps in this price range do better here actually, since the ABT2010 seems to be pretty well regarded from what I've read so far. OTOH, what is surprising is that my TV can convert 720p to 1080p with no lag, so why can't the 2310?

*shrug* anyway, while this is a bit disappointing, it's not a show-stopper for me. I can imagine how it might rain on your parade if you were counting on doing component-to-HDMI conversion for a console, though.
 
My experience with component input from the Wii, as mentioned [post=10523456]before[/post], is that Wiimote response with upscaling on is very sluggish.

With upscaling off, so 480p is passed to the TV, things do appear to be subjectively better and this could be just about bearable. The image quality is of course worse with the TV scaler.

This might be enough to avoid having to re-connect the Wii directly to the TV, which would effectively mean none of the video features being used beyond HDMI switching.
 
Last edited:
Hi Everyone,

I've joined the Denon club with the purchase of my new black 2310, along with the new RX6 AV12 Package.

I am trying to get my RXW-12 sub set-up correctly with this amp, and have posted thread in the sub forum for advice.

Just wanted to reference it here also to draw your attention over there. :smashin:

Cheers,
Eddie
 
Yep, you can turn off the scaler, but video conversion needs to be on for component>HDMI.

I tested for lag with the i/p scaler switched off, but it was just as bad. The only setting that has an impact on lag for me is the Video Convert setting.

Yes, you're right, sorry for any confusion - Video Convert ON, ip/scaling OFF. When I tried this I couldn't see any more lag than normal (direct component connection to TV). I didn't do a scientific test though - just my perception when playing a FPS.

Balders.
 
Yes, you're right, sorry for any confusion - Video Convert ON, ip/scaling OFF. When I tried this I couldn't see any more lag than normal (direct component connection to TV). I didn't do a scientific test though - just my perception when playing a FPS.

Balders.
If you own any Guitar Hero game or know somebody who owns one of them, then have a go at the calibration test with video conversion on and see what it reports.


Here's some specs I found on the Anchor bay ABT2010 chip that the 2310 uses:

Anchor Bay » ABT2010 » Advanced Video Processor

It contains the onimous phrase "3 frame video processing delay", however that's under the section about deinterlacing, and we seem to be experiencing delay even when converting progressive signals.

Also on that page is a reference to the "ABT2010 video delay calculator spreadsheet (.xls)", which is only available under NDA apparently :mad: Presumably that would tell you what delay you can expect under different scaling/conversion modes. Perhaps we should do some more GH experiments and publish our own version of that spreadsheet :D

I'd be surprised if other amps in this price range do better here actually, since the ABT2010 seems to be pretty well regarded from what I've read so far. OTOH, what is surprising is that my TV can convert 720p to 1080p with no lag, so why can't the 2310?

*shrug* anyway, while this is a bit disappointing, it's not a show-stopper for me. I can imagine how it might rain on your parade if you were counting on doing component-to-HDMI conversion for a console, though.
I'm more inclined to think that all 2310s have this lag issue after reading that link. There must be four or five people in this thread who have reported lag now. So either all 2310s have this issue, or there is a faulty batch. I'm more inclined to go for the former, as I can't believe that video processing is possible without a delay of a few frames.

I notice that the Anchor Bay specs mention a "Low latency mode for gaming applications". I wonder if that is an optional feature of the processor that Denon have chosen not to utilise.

With regard to your TV being able to upscale without lag and the 2310 not being able to, I would guess that upscaling itself doesn't really require extra frames. On the 2310, the i/p scaler doesn't seem to have any further negative impact on lag over the video conversion. I'm sure it's the other tricks that video conversion is pulling in background that contribute to lag.
 
With regard to your TV being able to upscale without lag and the 2310 not being able to, I would guess that upscaling itself doesn't really require extra frames. On the 2310, the i/p scaler doesn't seem to have any further negative impact on lag over the video conversion. I'm sure it's the other tricks that video conversion is pulling in background that contribute to lag.
I could also believe the opposite, with HDMI to HDMI being instantaneous, Component to HDMI possibly needing a frame's delay for buffering, but a further significant algorithmic delay being the price to pay for the superior scaling/deinterlacing of the 2310 over a TV.
 
I could also believe the opposite, with HDMI to HDMI being instantaneous, Component to HDMI possibly needing a frame's delay for buffering, but a further significant algorithmic delay being the price to pay for the superior scaling/deinterlacing of the 2310 over a TV.

I get noticeable lag on my 2310 with HDMI to HDMI when video conversion is enabled.
 
I get noticeable lag on my 2310 with HDMI to HDMI when video conversion is enabled.

Same here. With video conversion on, the lag is less with HDMI to HDMI than with component to HDMI, but it's still there. HDMI to HDMI is only instantaneous with video conversion switched off.
 
I get noticeable lag on my 2310 with HDMI to HDMI when video conversion is enabled.

What source are you using?
How are you measuring the lag?

If you are talking about Xbox 360 HDMI to the denon using Rock band and the like, what resoltuion are you sending from the 360 1080p?

The display and its processing of the image can be a factor too.
For eg with all processing off on my Philips 9703 , the lag is about 36ms from a 360 directly connected by HDMI @ 1080p.
 
Last edited:
What source are you using?
How are you measuring the lag?

If you are talking about Xbox 360 HDMI to the denon using Rock band and the like, what resoltuion are you sending from the 360 1080p?

The display and its processing of the image can be a factor too.
For eg with all processing off on my Philips 9703 , the lag is about 36ms from a 360 directly connected by HDMI @ 1080p.

I'm using my PC to measure the lag over HDMI to HDMI. I've got a DVI to HDMI adapter and that goes in to the back of the amp. With video conversion switched off so it's just throughputting the signal there's no appreciable lag whatsoever. With it enabled the mouse becomes sluggish.
 
hi, my 2310 in on the way, cause i could not find any 2309. slightly above my budget, but i needed the pre-out to drive my fronts with power amp for stereo usage.
1. does anyone know the difference in audyssey? 2309 multiEQXt with ALFC, 2310 MultiEQ XT.
2. in bluray on plasma FullHD, is the picture quality significant between ABT2010 and Faroudja. Or the de-interlacer for upscaling DVD and other signals for 1080p hdmi output.
3. 2310 is 11.2kg, 2309 is 12.3kg. did we loose anything here?
4. any other significant improvement in the 2310 over 2309?
just curious. lots of thanks for any input.
 
Last edited:
The display and its processing of the image can be a factor too.
For eg with all processing off on my Philips 9703 , the lag is about 36ms from a 360 directly connected by HDMI @ 1080p.
Of course, but then the display would simply be adding to the lag problem that the 2310 has, which would be a nightmare for gaming.

Lag comes out as 0ms when I switch off video conversion or connect directly to my TV, which means my TV has no real lag issue. Once video conversion is switched on the lag appears, even with HDMI to HDMI, so it's pretty obvious which component is the cause.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

The latest video from AVForums

Is 4K Blu-ray Worth It?
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom